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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

ILLEGALLY PRESENT IMMIGRANTS PROPPING UP SOCIAL SECURITY

Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.

This is really astonishing. A Washington Post columnist is reporting that illegally present immigrants may have already contributed a quarter TRILLION dollars in to the Social Security system - money that they will never collect and which presumably will eventually support American seniors.


 

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Comments

  1. George Chell's Avatar
    Forget illegals. The goal of people like Senator Alan Simpson who was a severe immigration restrictionist back in the 1980s and 1990s is to restrict even legal immigration, including skilled immigration, send jobs abroad, loose tax revenues and then want to cut social security. I believe this is what Sharon Angle and Jan Brewer are also hoping for...jobs move abroad, lesser revenues and then cut social security.
  2. George Chell's Avatar
    Senator Simpson is a fraud. He try to hoodwink the citizens by saying that jobs will go to Americans if we restrict the number of foreigners and sent foreign students home. However, his goal all along was to make draconian cuts in social security. He knew jobs will move abroad and we will loose tax revenues which means cuts to social security. Incidentally it is also the goal of Charles Grassley and Dick Durbin and Barry Sanders are unwitting participants...and I think Barrack Obama and Rahm Immanuel are also in the same group of unwitting participants.
  3. Jack's Avatar
    I am pretty blase about illegal immigration rationalization, but Schumacher-Matos' degree of simplistic cheerleading of illegal immigration stands out. Is he seriously making a case for the more illegal immigration, the better--just for SSA purposes? Or is there some other way to read, e.g.:

    The decline in illegal immigration, plus tighter workplace enforcement, means that contributions from the unauthorized will decrease.

    Not surprisingly, he doesn't account for non-SSA benefits that illegal aliens receive (or any other downsides) and seems to view any enforcement of immigration law soley as a loss of revenue to SSA. Unfortunately, there's a ridiculously obvious flaw to his logic. For his pyramid theory to work, you can't pay benefits to the illegal aliens--ever. Legalization could turn the surplus they provide into a deficit and the former free lunch into a long-term liability. Does it not occur to Schumacher-Matos that pandering politicians might find a way to pay benefits to those legalized as "basic fairness"? Does Schumacher-Matos understand that those legalized would receive more benefits than paid in at their, on average, low wages? Or that if he's right and "[f]ew of the unauthorized workers are likely to receive anything" that will increase elderly poverty?
  4. George Chell's Avatar
    "Does Schumacher-Matos understand that those legalized would receive more benefits than paid in at their, on average, low wages?"

    And are you able or do you want to pay $4 for a head of lettuce?
  5. Jack's Avatar
    That $x head of lettuce stuff is wildly overblown based on studies by labor economist Philip Martin:

    A significant increase in farm wages would have little effect on retail prices. For example, if a 35 percent farm worker wage increase were fully passed through to consumers, and if there were no productivity improvements in response to the farm worker wage increase, the farm worker wages and benefits embodied in a $1 head of lettuce would rise from about 7 to 9 cents, and the retail price from $1 to $1.02. The average American consumed about 12 heads of lettuce in 1998, so a 35 percent increase in farm wages and benefits would increase an average individual's lettuce expenditures by $0.25 a year, a quarter; a 70 percent wage increase would raise lettuce expenditures by less 50 cents a year.

    -----------

    This is because the wage paid the picker is just not a big enough percentage of the retail cost of lettuce to result in the extreme price increase people like George like to claim. It makes for good propaganda though, similar to creating the impression that the typical illegal alien worker is a crop picker when, in reality, only a tiny percentage of illegal aliens work in agriculture.

  6. George Chell's Avatar
    "That $x head of lettuce stuff is wildly overblown based on studies by labor economist Philip Martin"

    So what! Economists say what they want! Giovanni Peri also claims that low wages garabge put forward by you are overblown and to take it one step further bunch of baloney.

    Based on Peri's studies your assertions are plain propaganda for the antis! In the end, they are going to come the US government for more subsidies.

    We are paying higher wages for Americans in industries such as public transport, amtrak and airline industry. The price does not increase, agreed, but they all run a loss and are heavily subsidized by the US government. The goal of Grassley and Simpson is to cut social security. GOP comrpise most of the antis, but none of them want to to pay higher wages to any worker. They want to drive the jobs abroad, force US workers to work at slave wages (Walmsrt does not employ illegals but many will say they pay as bad as some employers pay illegals), and guess what? There will be decline in tax revenues and cuts in social security.

    Martin is bright..but he is also a crook. He is accounting for imports from abroad...so prices are not likely to increase. He is also accounting for increased farm subsidies and some farms going broke. Something he wont tell you.

    You want slave wages. Try Colgan Air. The young lady who works in my organization has a brother who works for Colgan. He is a pilot with a salary of $18,000 a year. If there is a weather related delay, he has to pay for his own hotel. Last year, he spent his entire monthly salary on hotels due to snow storms in the norhteast and had to borrow from his dad to pay his monthly expenses. Colgan does not employ illegals. Chasing illegals out will not change anything. They will drive jobs abroad, and pay slave wages, they will negotiate down the contract and pay slave wages, or they will go bankruptas in the case of the Washington Metro and get subsidies. Professor Martin is lying when he claims we dont pay higher prices. What do you think subsidies are? And they have been going up every year. That is why we dont pay much more when we pay higher wages. So, I am paying for it whether I like it or not. If you can give counter examples to show that Peri is a fraud, I will buy your argument. Otherwise, your crap is propaganda. Dont give me the law crap or that the GOP is for the common man and for higher wages...I say GOP because they are the most anti. If you think illegals are taking welfare, cut welfare. If you think illegals are using public services cut public services. If you think illegals should not be educated, we can debate that. What we need is a guest worker program with 12 million guest workers and change the census law to count only US citizens...so that racist whites in AZ, Texas, GA and other places will have fewer electoral votes. Had illegals not been counted in the 1990 Census, Al Gore would have been elected President and it would have been a different world. When it comes to economics and the law to hell with the law!
  7. Another Voice's Avatar
    No politician will ever acknowledge this contributions to SS in public.
  8. Another Voice's Avatar
    "Not surprisingly, he doesn't account for non-SSA benefits that illegal aliens receive (or any other downsides) and seems to view any enforcement of immigration law soley as a loss of revenue to SSA."

    What non SS benefits? they can't get any and clearly if they get some they are more than paying for them most stats ever done on this suggest that migrants take less than what they pay into the system of taxation without representation.

    "Unfortunately, there's a ridiculously obvious flaw to his logic. For his pyramid theory to work, you can't pay benefits to the illegal aliens--ever. Legalization could turn the surplus they provide into a deficit and the former free lunch into a long-term liability."

    The baby boomer generation will have 3 people retiring for 1 worker contributing, Immigrants can clearly alleviate that disparity as they tend to be young and have family... look at Japan with an aging population and no young population to take the jobs their economy has been tanking for 10 years.

    " Does it not occur to Schumacher-Matos that pandering politicians might find a way to pay benefits to those legalized as "basic fairness"? Does Schumacher-Matos understand that those legalized would receive more benefits than paid in at their, on average, low wages? Or that if he's right and "[f]ew of the unauthorized workers are likely to receive anything" that will increase elderly poverty? "

    They would receive benefits according to their contributions like anyone else and you choose to ignore the fact that they have already paid for these benefits and will not collect on a lot of their contributions. You also ignore the fact that contributions from young immigrants can help SS fiancees while America decides to fix the entitlement programs for future generations which would include these young immigrants.
  9. Another Voice's Avatar
    "A significant increase in farm wages would have little effect on retail prices. For example, if a 35 percent farm worker wage increase were fully passed through to consumers, and if there were no productivity improvements in response to the farm worker wage increase, the farm worker wages and benefits embodied in a $1 head of lettuce would rise from about 7 to 9 cents, and the retail price from $1 to $1.02."

    It's called the free market you have to compete with world prices there fore wage increases would make America's farm industry less competitive and has been proven not to draw native workers to the farm. You fuel inflation, lose business and not really solve the employment picture. Greg posted something about gerber farms after a raid in their facilities and despite paying very competitive wages they failed to fill the jobs previously done by immigrants.

    "The average American consumed about 12 heads of lettuce in 1998, so a 35 percent increase in farm wages and benefits would increase an average individual's lettuce expenditures by $0.25 a year, a quarter; a 70 percent wage increase would raise lettuce expenditures by less 50 cents a year."

    What about grapes, tomatoes, strawberries and all produce in America do you want to rise prices in this economy Jack, I am sure with the current unemployment rate people would love it just so we can be more restrictionist.
  10. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    "Not surprisingly, he doesn't account for non-SSA benefits that illegal aliens receive (or any other downsides) and seems to view any enforcement of immigration law soley as a loss of revenue to SSA"

    And you conveniently ignore any non-SSA contributions they make. Like sales taxes and property taxes.
  11. George Chell's Avatar
    Overall goal of the antis is to drive businesses abroad, reduce tax revenues and cut social security..eg. Alan Simpson who was on the board of FAIR and Charles Grassley. Of course, Dick "dickhead" Durbin and Bernard "the brain-dead" Sanders are unwitting participants!
  12. George Chell's Avatar
    FAIR and CIS vision for America...this is what will happen if we double the salaries of nurses and doctors...health care costs will increase...insurance wont pay, and they will have to collect from patients, particularly our seniors, and guess what, insurance will drop the seniors....

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39014018/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times
  13. Jack's Avatar
    "They would receive benefits according to their contributions like anyone else and you choose to ignore the fact that they have already paid for these benefits"

    AV, I am not ignoring their contributions, just saying that adding a huge number of poor people to the system negatively affects the ratio of high earners to low earners, thus putting pressure on the health of the system:

    "...lower-paid workers receive higher benefits in relation to their earnings in employment covered by Social Security than do higher-paid workers. (Earnings replacement rates are about 60 percent for minimum wage earners, 42 percent for average wage earners, and 26 percent for high earners.)"

    http://www.ssa.gov/kids/workfacts.htm

  14. Jim's Avatar
    "AV, I am not ignoring their contributions, just saying that adding a huge number of poor people to the system negatively affects the ratio of high earners to low earners, thus putting pressure on the health of the system:

    "...lower-paid workers receive higher benefits in relation to their earnings in employment covered by Social Security than do higher-paid workers. (Earnings replacement rates are about 60 percent for minimum wage earners, 42 percent for average wage earners, and 26 percent for high earners.)"

  15. Jim's Avatar
    Forgot to mention that it is unlikely that they will collect their fair share. Basically free money.

    So, how could that put pressure on the system??

    It just doesn't make sense.

  16. George Chell's Avatar
    Jim:

    Here is your conservative and antis commitment to training more Americans.....direct from the horse's mouth....

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_michael_barone/the_higher_education_bubble_ready_to_burst

    at a time when we need more educated people.....

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2012821283_work06.html

    Wait till 2012 or 2013, they will say we need to train more Americans and in the process export more jobs instead of bringing in more slilled immigrants...tax revenues will fall and they will want to cut social security even more!

  17. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    Basically, Jack is OK taking money from illegal immgrants, but not OK giving them back. And even though he is not giving back any, he is OK spreading the rumors that illegal immigrants are draining Americans dry RIGHT NOW.
  18. George Chell's Avatar
    Jim:

    Sorry for near plagarism

    Basically, the antis are OK cutting education and sending jobs abroad and making draconian cuts in social security, but not OK maintaining education spending, letting immigrants in, keeping tax revenues at home and not makes cuts in social security. It is all as I said, comes down to RACISM..Racists Kirkorian, Stein, Heather McDonald, Jessica Vaughan to just name a few..if they really wanted to train Americans they will be protesting in front of every state legislature.
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