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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

THE IMMIGRATION HALL OF SHAME

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My friend Amy Novick writes a piece on Huffington Post that lists some of the most anti-immigrant public officials in the country. They're all pretty good selections, though I can certainly come up with a few additional nominees. How about our old friend Sheriff Joe Arpaio? His compatriot in the Arizona Legislature Russell Pearce should be considered. Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions has his own history of blocking immigration reform that should not be forgotten. Who else should make Amy's list?

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  1. Really's Avatar
    How about our good Ole John "Forget me not" McCain.
  2. A's Avatar
    Gary Miller of CA-42
  3. Greened's Avatar
    Anybody who's got a 5/5 star award from numbersusa is a good candidate.
  4. George Chell's Avatar
    John McCain, David "Diaper" Vitter, Jeff "the Racist" Session, Jim "the Demented DeMint", Dana Rohrbacher, Duncan Hunter, Gary Miller, Dick Durbin, Bernie Sanders, Mark Kirk, Robert McCollum, Ricky Scott, AG Cox, Dan Maes, Nathan "I hate Latino Babies" Deal, Michelle "I am real American" Bachman, Marsha Blackburn, Jo Ann Emerson, Darrell "I am not Arab" Issa, Zach Wamp, Dan Inhofe, Joe "You Lie" Wilson, to name a few!!
  5. Jack's Avatar
    "...a broken, inhuman and often irrational immigration system has been allowed to fester."


    Questions for Amy: what makes the system broken to you? How is the current system inhuman?

    Does she mean by limiting immigration? That will still be the case under the terms of a CIR.

    Does she mean enforcement of immigration law? There will be enforcement provisions under any CIR. There will still be people subject to deportation.

    If that is what you mean, what exactly is going to be different going forward under the terms of the CIR you're proposing to keep the new system from being "inhuman" to you? How can you support the limitations and enforcement provisions of the legislation you lobby in favor of when you oppose the current system for those reasons?








  6. George Chell's Avatar
    The Immigration Hall of Trash....Senator Alan Simpson...His Simpson-Mazzoli bill of 1984 created a lot of uncertainty among corporations who began moving jobs to Singapore and Hong KOng leading to the economic development of those countries while the US unemployment was very slow to fall from 10.8% to 5.5% (it took five years). His policy drove jobs overseas which is precisely one of the reasons we have a revenue problem, and now the old man wants to cut social security....

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/08/25/2010-08-25_former_gop_sen_alan_simpson_an_obama_adviser_compares_a_milk_cow_with_310_millio.html

  7. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    "How is the current system inhuman?"

    Do you think it is ok to make people wait for 10+ years for their permanent residence? Why is it OK to bar someone eligible for a green card with no criminal record from the country for 10 years - all for a simple civil violation?

    The immigration system is an equivalent of setting speed limit on the highway at 25 mph, and then taking away licenses for 10 years from anyone caught above that limit. How many people do you think will drive without license then? Please don't twist my words into saying that I want completely open borders. You can enforce the speed limit and give adequate punishment for violations - but the laws should make sense. Current laws ARE inhumane, and they only breed more illegal immigration (and I honestly think you are fine with the later because it just builds your case amoung the those who know nothing about immigration).
  8. Another Voice's Avatar
    How is the current system inhuman? How about the 12 million people living in the shadows in the "land of the free"..., what about the many human deaths in border crossings every year, how about making people choosing between a life of misery and illegality and second class citizen status. How about people in the legal system wanting to go after the american dream waiting years and caught in a terrible system for years adding uncertainty to their lives without the need for it when we know the system is broken, how about playing with people's lives and use them as political football every election cycle. There plenty more.....
  9. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    The only reason Jack thinks the laws are "humane" is because those laws never applied to him. If they did, I guarantee you, he would have a snowball's chance in hell of making it to LPR.
  10. USC's Avatar
    Jack:

    Guess what your President and your DHS has been up to lately:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7169978.html

    Amnesty by stealth, eh?
  11. Jack's Avatar
    "...what puts [Grassley] at the top of the list is his spreading the notion of an Obama back-door amnesty plan."

    I am confused. Is she denying the authenticity of the memo? That the memo concerned what amounts to "back-door amnesty"? Or is she just upset that Grassley shined a light on the issue because she agrees with the tactic and now it is less likely due to public scrutiny?

    Amy Novick is an immigration attorney which is not disclosed even in her detailed bio. Her PAC says they believe in a system which "restores America's status as a welcoming country", implying that the current system is not welcoming despite being the most generous in the world, letting in more than all other countries combined. To describe the most generous system as "inhuman" suggests a belief that immigration law is inherently unjust and I suspect Amy falls into that category. If she does, my prior questions would probably pin her down on that and expose her support for CIR as deceptive because CIR contains enforcement which she doesn't really support. The strategic trick is to act like you support enforcement (which can be neutered or repealed legislatively or simply not enforced by the Executive Branch) in order to get the irrevocable amnesty you really want along with even higher immigration. Before the ink is even dry on a passed CIR, I have a feeling that activists who think the current system is "inhuman" are going to be lobbying against the enforcement provisions. It is hard to take anyone seriously on enforcement who would use that word.
  12. Jack's Avatar


    what about the many human deaths in border crossings every year,

    THE ONLY WAY TO ELIMINATE THAT IS ABSOLUTELY UNLIMITED IMMIGRATION AND EFFECTIVELY NO BORDER--BUT IF WE DETERRED ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION INSTEAD OF ENCOURAGE IT, MUCH FEWER WOULD CROSS AND DIE. EVEN THE PROSPECT OF AMNESTY ENCOURAGES MORE TO CROSS. PUBLICIZING A 'WE ARE ONLY GOING AFTER THE DANGEROUS CRIMINALS' POLICY ENCOURAGES MORE TO CROSS. BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP WITH SPONSORSHIP OF THE PARENTS ENCOURAGES MORE TO CROSS. DOING NOTHING TO PREVENT RENTING HOUSING TO ILLEGAL ALIENS ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO CROSS. THE LIST IS ENDLESS.


    how about making people choosing between a life of misery and illegality and second class citizen status.

    I'M SORRY, BUT DID THEY NOT CHOOSE TO RESIDE HERE IN THAT ILLEGAL STATUS? WE ARE HOLDING A GUN AT THEIR HEAD TO KEEP THEM RESIDING HERE? IF BEING AN ILLEGAL ALIEN IN THE U.S. WERE THAT MISERABLE, A LOT LESS PEOPLE WOULD CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THAT STATUS. OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE DISADVANTAGES TO NOT BEING LEGAL, BUT YOU PRESUME MISERY. A LOT OF ILLEGAL ALIENS SAY THEY JUST WANT TO WORK AND THEY DO WORK AS ILLEGAL ALIENS. THEY CANNOT VOTE BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT MAKES THEM ALL MISERABLE? THERE IS A SLIM CHANCE THEY COULD BE DEPORTED BUT IF THEY ARE THEY CAN RETURN (AND MANY DO).

    How about people in the legal system wanting to go after the american dream waiting years and caught in a terrible system for years adding uncertainty to their lives

    I AGREE THAT THE LEGAL SYSTEM COULD BE MORE EFFICIENT--BUT I WOULD NOT GO AS FAR TO DESCRIBE THAT UNCERTAINTY AS 'INHUMAN'. MAYBE I WOULD FEEL DIFFERENT IF I EXPERIENCED IT BUT GUESS THAT I WOULD CHALK IT UP TO TYPICAL BUREAUCRACY, NOT BRUTALITY. STUPIDITY, BUT NOT SOME HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE A PERSON HAS AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO PERMANENT STATUS IN ANY COUNTRY THEY WANT TO LIVE IN. AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT IS NOT DESIRABLE TO HAVE EXTREMELY LONG TERM 'TEMPORARY' RESIDENCY. THE ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF ALL UNCERTAINTY IS TO ISSUE A GREEN CARD DAY ONE BUT WE SHOULD NOT BE NEEDLESSLY ARBITRARY OR CAPRICIOUS, I.E., IT WOULD BE FEASIBLE TO HAVE A FIXED PERIOD KNOWN FROM THE BEGINNING AND THAT TERM NOT BE UNREASONABLY LENGTHY IN ORDER TO FOSTER ASSIMILATION AND LESSEN THE NEGATIVE EFFECT OF IMMIGRATION ON SOCIAL CAPITAL.
  13. roger9192004's Avatar
    Don't forget Kris Kobach, legal architect of SB 1070, for Hall of Shame (also attorney for FAIR, and drafted laws in Hazleton, Farmers Branch, etc.). He's also a law professor at University of Missouri, KC, and currently a candidate for Secretary of State in KS. He's called by the SPLC one of the "leading nativists" in the country.
  14. George Chell's Avatar
    Jack:

    I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHETHER THE POSTION IS HUMANE OR NOT! HOWEVER I HAVE SAID THAT THIS IS MY PSOTION AND I WILL REPEAT MYSELF: WHEN IT COMES TO A CONTEST BETWEEN LAW AND ECONOMICS TO HELL WITH THE LAW! WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO GREG MANY LAWYERS AND LEGAL PROFESSIONALS ARE THE MAIN REASON THIS COUNTRY IS IN A MESS STARTING WITH THE CONGRESSMEN. iF DEPORTING 12 MILLION PEOPLE WILL LEAD TO A GLUT OF HOUSES AND A GREAT DEPRESSION, TO HELL WITH THE LAW! CHANGE THE LAW! I DONT CARE WHETHER THEY BROKE THE LAW OR NOT. IF A LAW LEADS TO AN ECONOMIC MESS, IT SHOULD BE BROKEN. END OF STORY! SENATOR ALAN SIMPSON TRIED TO RESTRICT IMMIGRATION WHICH LED TO JOBS MOVING ABROAD AND SOCIAL SECURITY REVENUE DECLINES AND NOW THAT WORTHLESS PIECE OF TRASH WANTS TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. END OF STORY!
  15. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    "I AGREE THAT THE LEGAL SYSTEM COULD BE MORE EFFICIENT--BUT I WOULD NOT GO AS FAR TO DESCRIBE THAT UNCERTAINTY AS 'INHUMAN'. MAYBE I WOULD FEEL DIFFERENT IF I EXPERIENCED IT BUT GUESS THAT I WOULD CHALK IT UP TO TYPICAL BUREAUCRACY, NOT BRUTALITY. STUPIDITY, BUT NOT SOME HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE A PERSON HAS AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO PERMANENT STATUS IN ANY COUNTRY THEY WANT TO LIVE IN."

    Let's call a duck a duck: this is pure unadulterated BS. Immigration system wows have NOTHING to do with bureaucracy. It has everything to do with the laws. The USICS would be happy giving out visas and green cards, but they simply CAN'T because the laws (quotas, bars, other restrictions) prohibit them.

    If you think it would be "humane" to be jailed for 10 years over parking your car in front of a fire hydrant or speeding on a street (with no other consequences - just a simple civil violation), then you are just simply nuts. Well, Jacky-poo, the same thing happens in immigration - families are separated for 10 years for a simple civil offence (nothing criminal whatsoever - EVER), with absolutely no relief available. It is not inefficiency, it has nothing to with bureaucracy, it is THE LAW. Now, tell me again it is humane.
  16. Another Voice's Avatar
    "THE ONLY WAY TO ELIMINATE THAT IS ABSOLUTELY UNLIMITED IMMIGRATION AND EFFECTIVELY NO BORDER--BUT IF WE DETERRED ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION INSTEAD OF ENCOURAGE IT, MUCH FEWER WOULD CROSS AND DIE. EVEN THE PROSPECT OF AMNESTY ENCOURAGES MORE TO CROSS. PUBLICIZING A 'WE ARE ONLY GOING AFTER THE DANGEROUS CRIMINALS' POLICY ENCOURAGES MORE TO CROSS. BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP WITH SPONSORSHIP OF THE PARENTS ENCOURAGES MORE TO CROSS. DOING NOTHING TO PREVENT RENTING HOUSING TO ILLEGAL ALIENS ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO CROSS."

    You are wrong if you reform the immigration system to accommodate supply and demand of the labor market and allow low skill immigration to come here legally. Then you have a better way to control the immigration flows and less people crossing the border illegally, I am sure these people love to feel prosecuted and de-humanized all the time it has to be their dream Jack. Birthright Citizenship takes a long.... long time for a parent to be able to get from the kids basically until they are 18, I am sure people are looking at that as a serious way to stay here legally. Sure punish landlords in a housing market already in the toilet and have them enforce immigration laws that is smart Jack, man you are probably putting rockets in space right now!!!

    "I'M SORRY, BUT DID THEY NOT CHOOSE TO RESIDE HERE IN THAT ILLEGAL STATUS? WE ARE HOLDING A GUN AT THEIR HEAD TO KEEP THEM RESIDING HERE? IF BEING AN ILLEGAL ALIEN IN THE U.S. WERE THAT MISERABLE, A LOT LESS PEOPLE WOULD CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THAT STATUS. OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE DISADVANTAGES TO NOT BEING LEGAL, BUT YOU PRESUME MISERY. A LOT OF ILLEGAL ALIENS SAY THEY JUST WANT TO WORK AND THEY DO WORK AS ILLEGAL ALIENS. THEY CANNOT VOTE BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT MAKES THEM ALL MISERABLE? THERE IS A SLIM CHANCE THEY COULD BE DEPORTED BUT IF THEY ARE THEY CAN RETURN (AND MANY DO)."

    You missed the point completely let me retool your brain a bit...If you are from a 3rd world country in Latin America and there are no opportunities and you can't put food on the table for your family = economic misery, poverty that is what I meant... But you know that the worst job in america pays you 10 times better than a good job in your country, that is if you are lucky to find one and you can put food on the table for you kids... Then the choice it's easy due to the lack of a way to come here legally and the jobs that americans won't do then people will rather be here illegally than not been able to support their families and yes they will put up with what ever the have to when it comes to live here illegally as long as they can support their love ones "Humane" remember.... because living here illegally as tough as that is is a lot easier that living in a slump and extreme poverty somewhere else. Supply and Demand of the labor force plain and simple.

  17. USC's Avatar
    Jack, what is with the shouting? I hope it wasn't my link that caused you to flip out.
  18. Jack's Avatar
    Sorry about the "shouting". I was just typing all caps to contrast from original post and thought it would be just a few sentences each but ended up longer.

    So the Another Voice immigration doctrine is that the U.S. is obligated to accept any person in poverty/makes less than worst job in U.S. Do you have any idea how many people that applies to?

    Due to proximity, the majority of the illegal entrants are from Mexico which has among the worst income distribution in Latin America. Your doctrine creates a disincentive for reform of their corrupt oligarchy. The oligarchy is supported by dumping poor people on the U.S. and then having remittances sent back to ensure the status quo.

    Since you are so into supply and demand, please consider that your doctrine also puts downward pressure on "low skill" wages and working conditions which adversely affects our most economically vulnerable Americans. Even if we went formally open borders (which would help with exploitation due to illegal status), the downward pressure on wages would remain or even increase due to a presumably even greater pool of available labor.

  19. LFWF's Avatar
    Jack,

    Your point is well taken. However you cannot isolate it from the fact that Mexico's conditions are influenced greatly by US policies, with the farm subsidies heading the list. In the past I have asked you pointedly whether you support certain stances taken by your tea party brethren You have equally pointedly refused to answer despite several attempts. Hopefully, this one will be easier. So do you support removing farm subsidies so that Mexican farmers can make a living wage and therefore be inclined to stay in their country? I am not for any open borders. But as long as the US destroys Mexican farms, I question the legitimacy of the anti immigrant crusade. So are you for or against the farm lobby then?
  20. Jack's Avatar
    Good point, LFWF. I consider the current illegal labor situation a form of corporate welfare as well as big ag subsidy policies. Big ag profits from both at the expense of our own family farmers as well as those in Mexico.

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