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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

PROPORTIONAL CONSEQUENCES

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My friend Tom Roach in Washington State forwarded this letter from the Arizona Catholic Conference which was released after Judge Bolton's decision in the Arizona case. I'm posting it because it has some language that I think is very helpful in the debate. The Bishops say



There must be a process - but not amnesty - for persons who have entered our country illegally to pursue legal status. This process must have proportionate consequences for the act of illegal entry, consequences that would include fines, learning English, and going to the "back of the line" to seek citizenship.



The idea needs to be repeated over and over again. This is not about amnesty. This is about what is the appropriate punishment for the people who have broken our immigration laws. Exile - the antis' only offered solution - is the equivalent of chopping off your hands for shoplifting. Fines, English tests, paying back taxes, community service, etc. are all reasonable responses to the offense. Once the debate is framed in those terms, the antis have a hard time sounding convincing. They use the term "amnesty" to make it sound like pro-immigration groups are offering a solution that contains no punishment for the illegal behavior. Not so and as that message penetrates, immigration reform will have a better chance of eventually happening.










Arizona Bishops Letter

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Comments

  1. Ram's Avatar
    What line? The current expected wait time (without legislative recourse) for a 35 year old Indian programmer is 35 years. People talking about "going back to the line" must first understand how long the line is and fix it first. No wonder there are some who don't want to be in the line and take short cuts...err...jump the fence.
  2. Adi's Avatar
    Sept visa bulletin
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5113.html
  3. George Chell's Avatar
    I think the best way to solve this problem is to legalize illegals who are married to US citizens/PR with children and put everyone else in the guest worker program. Should satisfy the family values folk (as long as they dont believe that family values are only for white people) as well as the folks who want some form of legalization. As far as the programmers are concerned it is not something a combination of EB recapture plus the applicant perhaps going to school to get an advanced degree in the US will not help solve!

    However, let me make it clear once again that if we ever solve the illegal problem, either through mass deportation or amnesty, the antis will come after the legals. They are afraid of Asian competition and Asians come in through legal channels. Britain has really capped skilled migration and Aussies are talking about doing the same. In the end, of course, these policies are job killers and will end up driving more and more jobs to Asia.
  4. USC's Avatar
    "Sept visa bulletin"

    Huge advance on FB2b. Nice advances on everything else with the exception of EB3 India.
  5. Adi's Avatar
    http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/11/1771435/bill-mccollum-unveils-controversial.html

    Florida AG planning to bring Arizona style bill.
  6. George Chell's Avatar
    "Florida AG planning to bring Arizona style bill."

    Desperate man doing desperate things....shows the clown trailing even in right wing Rasmussen polling....

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/florida/election_2010_florida_governor

    Reminds me of another AG who lost...Mike Cox of Michigan
  7. Another Voice's Avatar
    I think to do something such as the proposal from these Bishops is not convenient to the antis and republicans. Doing something practical does not energize their base, therefore status quo is better. The prefer miss-information and half truths to reality and the dems not sure what they stand for, but the status quo has worked for them also my guess is that they are comfortable where things are... they do not want to touch Immigration with a 10 ft. pole.
  8. George Chell's Avatar
    The antis say..double the nurses salary and there will be no shortage, but I said before, who is going to pay for it? Corporations are trying to get the employees to go abroad for medical treatment....

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/11/news/companies/health_care_medical_travel/index.htm
  9. George Chell's Avatar
    Tancredo thinks that there are enough idiot Hispanics who will vote for him....

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/governor-races/113803-former-rep-tancredo-im-staying-in-colo-governors-race
  10. Vivek's Avatar
    "As far as the programmers are concerned it is not something a combination of EB recapture plus the applicant perhaps going to school to get an advanced degree in the US will not help solve!"

    George - Its not that simple. Most of the programmers that you are currently languishing already have advanced degrees. But because of the way jobs are generally classified or because of lawyers who advise corporations, the immigrant petition is filed in EB3.

    For e.g. - most of the programmer position job descriptions are very generic - HR managers do not want to make them very specific even if the actual job requires specific skills.

    In other cases, because USCIS interprets laws very narrowly, certain immigration lawyers advise corporations to file petitions under the EB3 category just to avoid additional documentation burden when they get RFEs from USCIS.

    The problem is the country based discrimination for employment based immigrant applicants - just because someone is from India or China, do they have to wait their lifetime to get a permanent residency? How does diversity matter for employment based immigrants (as it is you are talking about only 140K visas every year)? It should be purely based on skills required and skills an applicant possesses.
  11. Jim's Avatar
    "double the nurses salary and there will be no shortage, but I said before, who is going to pay for it? Corporations are trying to get the employees to go abroad for medical treatment...."

    We will be attracting the wrong people as well if simply doubling the salary is their solution. They won't last as well w/c brings everything back to ground zero and we would have just delayed upping the nurses population.

    Besides, there is also a lack of faculty and lack of schools and it's not like any nurse can "teach". There are minimum requirements and since 60% of domestics nurses are 2 yr associate degree holders only - scratch them from the possible pool of teachers plus not all those with minimum requirements to "teach" have the aptitude to teach as well.

    And as George said, doubling the salary is near impossible. So, if they just return back to reality from their fantasy world, they would realize that that's not going to happen.

  12. George Chell's Avatar
    "The problem is the country based discrimination for employment based immigrant applicants - just because someone is from India or China, do they have to wait their lifetime to get a permanent residency? How does diversity matter for employment based immigrants (as it is you are talking about only 140K visas every year)? It should be purely based on skills required and skills an applicant possesses."

    Like everything in this country..it is quotas and set asides based on nationality, race, religion or other factors. Some say it is affirmative action..some say it is to keep whites a majority in this country as long as possible.

  13. Arcoiris's Avatar
    http://www.memphisdailynews.com/editorial/Article.aspx?id=52059

    Good article, Greg! Congrats!
  14. Tundra/Desert's Avatar
    Thanks for a great point, Greg. "Proportional consequences" is a very appropriate byline, while it seems to me that "Path to citizenship" is not such a good one. Actually, a pretty awful one. Not quite as awful as "amnesty", but gives all ammo to those who claim that Democrats simply view illegals as unregistered voters.

    The more emphasis there is on appropriate consequences, and the less on perceived benefits, the greater the chance that constructive things will be done. In particular, a simple and mostly technical step like removing or relaxing the 3- and 10-year bars certainly doesn't carry the subtext of amnesty, nor the association with quick and easy citizenship, and can be thus passed and implemented without much brouhaha. Perhaps it could be one of the first steps with which to begin piecemeal reform in lieu of the CIR.
  15. LFWF's Avatar
    Why the GOP really wants to alter the 14th Amendment

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/10/AR2010081004586.html
  16. George Chell's Avatar
    "Why the GOP really wants to alter the 14th Amendment"

    From the article....

    "its percentage of white Christians will decline to just 35 percent of the population by 2040."

    ...and its percentage of white skin worshipping pagans masquerading as Christians (including white skin worshipping polygamists in Arizona and Idaho who want as many white skin worshipping women as radical moslems want plain Islamic women) such as Nathan Deal and Jan Brewer will decline even further.

    "Sentient Republican strategists such as Karl Rove have long understood that unless their party could win more Latino votes, it would eventually go the way of the Whigs.That's the main reason George W. Bush tried to persuade congressional Republicans to support immigration reform. But most lawmakers, reflecting the nativism of the Republican base, would have none of it."

    Not enough...the strategy was all wrong. Had Karl Rove forced Bush to define the war on terrorists as a need for Christian Unity and defined the need for more Christians in this country, white or otherwise, he would have made the GOP the majority party. What they did was to antagonize non-radical moslems and allowed white skin worshipping pagans such as Tancredo, Deal and others to define war on terror...and the battle against Hispanics began in earnest with other pagans such as Brewer, Pearce and Arapaio and now Graham has joined the battle. They say they want to fight radical Islam and America is a Christian country...what they probably mean is that they want America to return to the white skin worshipping pagan country it was until 1965....their goal is not more Christians...removing 14th amendment would mean fewer Christians in America, not more! This concerns true Christians such as Land among others who want more Christians in this country...and distinguishes him and real Christians from the white skin worshipping pagans, one of the recent ones being Lindsey Graham!

    Not specifically
  17. George Chell's Avatar
    And one more thing....

    "The crimes that Republicans ascribe to today's illegal immigrants pale next to those of Confederate leaders and supporters (chiefly, treason)."

    Had Lincoln dealt with the traitor confederates the way Truman dealt with the Nazis, we wont be having any traitor confederate flag wavers today. These guys have the gall to wave the flag of treason and yet they complain about Mexicans saving the Mexican flag. I have a better compromise...the Mexican American should wave the US flag only in return for confederate flag wavers burning their flags and joining the US society!
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