ILW.COM - the immigration portal Immigration Daily

Home Page


Immigration Daily

Archives

Processing times

Immigration forms

Discussion board

Resources

Blogs

Twitter feed

Immigrant Nation

Attorney2Attorney

CLE Workshops

Immigration books

Advertise on ILW

VIP Network

EB-5

移民日报

About ILW.COM

Connect to us

Make us Homepage

Questions/Comments


SUBSCRIBE

Immigration Daily


Chinese Immig. Daily




The leading
immigration law
publisher - over
50000 pages of
free information!
Copyright
1995-
ILW.COM,
American
Immigration LLC.

View RSS Feed

Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS

Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average.

When I was in law school at the University of Chicago, our economics-oriented professors would often refer to "widgets" when they needed to refer to an unnamed manufactured object. A widget is really an "any object" that is interchangeable with other widgets. The idea is that you can focus on broader economic principles if you can keep the student from focusing on the particulars of a given industry. 



And despite a stated concern for workers, Senators Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Charles Grassley (R-IA) really think of workers as widgets - interchangeable cogs in the world of business. They are proposing the Employ America Act which seeks to bar employers that have had layoffs from being able to file H-1Bs even if a needed H-1B employee is in a field completely different than the occupation of laid off workers and even if a company only employs a very tiny percentage of H-1Bs in its workforce. This is a sledgehammer approach to immigration policy and is simply protectionism that would likely constitute a violation of the General Agreement on Trade in Services. If it passed, it could land the US in the world trade court.

Workers are NOT widgets and to say that any person can basically replace any other person really insults the dignity of the American worker.





grassley letter -

Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to Facebook Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to Twitter Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to Google Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to StumbleUpon Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to Reddit Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to Digg Submit "SENATORS THINK WORKERS ARE WIDGETS" to del.icio.us

Tags: None Add / Edit Tags

Comments

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
  1. Another voice's Avatar
    The odd couple of Sanders /Grassley can really do a number with this legislation....they must spend their time thinking of ways to out do each other with bad ideas!!!!
  2. George Chell's Avatar
    Grassley and Sanders want to send more jobs abroad, reduce social security revenues and later propose draconian cuts to social security benefits. This has been in the works for a long time. The fact that they are sending this letter out means that there are no co-sponsors until now and there are no takers!
  3. George Chell's Avatar
    Grassley-Durbin-Sanders vision for America!

    http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/18989

    Or do they want to increase employment in India?
  4. George Chell's Avatar
    More on Grassley-Sanders American vision....

    http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/04/yahoo-downsizing-in-the-united-states-hiring-in-india/
  5. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    That's the point of an economic crisis - to change the way we do business, become more efficient, and grow again using new technologies. It is the whole point of recovery - to lay people who represent the old ways to doing things, and hire people who know the new ways of doing things. When a factory updates its technology, nobody says - you can't hire engineers and deploy new computerized line until you find a place for all manual machine workers. This is not going to help the American economy to recover, quite the opposite.
  6. George Chell's Avatar
    "This is not going to help the American economy to recover, quite the opposite."

    It surely wont create jobs in America and lead to a vicious circle. In attacking a meager 65,000 jobs going to foreigners we are in dange of loosing ten times as much to other countries. Citibank froze hiring in the US after the Grassley stipulation and continues to hire in India and elsewhere...

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Jobs/Citibank-to-continue-recruitment-in-India-despite-slowdown/articleshow/4229043.cms

    http://goodnewspilipinas.com/?p=4361

    And the sad thing is nobody goes back and sees what happened to hiring by TARP recipients after the ban was imposed!
  7. Legal_Alien_from_Roswell's Avatar
    WOW, were they smoking a doobie when they wrote that??

    Greg, do you think something as absurd as this will ever pass? i mean logically it cant, but caught up in emotions, do you think they'll pull this one through inspired by the TARP anti H1B bill?
  8. George Chell's Avatar
    "Greg, do you think something as absurd as this will ever pass? i mean logically it cant, but caught up in emotions, do you think they'll pull this one through inspired by the TARP anti H1B bill?"

    If it does (Loefgren has previously said no) look for more jobs to move abroad and unemployment to spike further starting a vicious circle!
  9. Mari's Avatar
    Uh, not to state the obvious, but has anyone ever thought about RETRAINING the American workers? Back in previous decades, American companies trained and retrained American workers all the time. And, those were America's finest decades in terms of progress, engineering, technological advances, and economic world leadership. A veritable Golden Age. Since bumpting up the H-1B program in 2000, it's been nowhere but down for the American tech business community. Ten years of massive yearly H-1B caps is more than enough of an experiment. We are seeing what they are doing to us. End the H-1B program, or at least seriously curtail it. The only thing that will save America's economy now is to put American talent back to work.
  10. Greg SIskind's Avatar
    Mari - I don't think anyone here disagrees with the concept of retraining American workers to be able to handle work in critical areas. That often is a fine long term solution for labor shortages and is also a decent solution for jobs that don't require years of education and training. Many folks here know that I have a substantial health care immigration practice. Employers have no control over the supply of doctors and we're looking at a 15 year cycle from the point of deciding to expand the physician numbers and doctors actually treating patients as a result of that decision. For nurses, many hospitals have done exactly what you're suggesting. Unfortunately, the task is not so easy. There is a shortage of faculty, facilities, funds and, in many cases, interested students (though that really always baffles me since nurses are well paid and jobs are plentiful). There are always the protectionists in those fields who will try and convince you that there are actually surpluses, but actual high wage inflation in both medicine and nursing really tell the real story. Health care reform will likely not do much to control costs until this issue is addressed.

    But back to the general question of H-1Bs and retraining, you should know that every H-1B approved comes with a $1500 fee that goes toward retraining projects.

    I'm all for spending funds to retrain workers. I don't agree that it should all come on the backs of employers as opposed to being shared by the taxpayers more broadly. Most small business owners I know are barely making it and waiting months and spending vast sums on retraining efforts are simply not realistic.

  11. George Chell's Avatar
    "Uh, not to state the obvious, but has anyone ever thought about RETRAINING the American workers? Back in previous decades, American companies trained and retrained American workers all the time."

    Previous decades were not a global economy. US corporations hire workers where the markets are or will try to bring them into the country to open the markets. I have also made training Americans an issue..but dont see antis protesting budget cuts and cuts in budgets for training.

    "And, those were America's finest decades in terms of progress, engineering, technological advances, and economic world leadership. A veritable Golden Age."

    Not true! Patents rose sharply in the 1990s after H1Bs were introduced, and since then it is on the decline.

    "Since bumpting up the H-1B program in 2000, it's been nowhere but down for the American tech business community. Ten years of massive yearly H-1B caps is more than enough of an experiment."

    65,000 jobs out of millions? Massive?

    "We are seeing what they are doing to us. End the H-1B program, or at least seriously curtail it. The only thing that will save America's economy now is to put American talent back to work."

    Yes. This can happen when America takes back its expat workers from other countries...expat workers earning fat salaries. If you want a two way street I am all for it! Also if you are happy sending those jobs abroad, Yahoo just created 200 jobs in India, I am all for it! Perhaps you are too deluded to read and understand all the attachments I have provided!

  12. George Chell's Avatar
    http://www.ilw.com/articles/2009,1111-johnson.shtm
  13. LFWF's Avatar
    Mari,

    More uninformed stuff, please please check facts before posting.
    Increased H1B caps were for a limited period- 3 years I believe.
    Since then the cap is back at it's historical limit of 65K. So which 10 year experiment are you talking about??

    Also, what makes you think that immigrants had nothing to do with the decades of prosperity? Please look around you, read, research and leave ignorance and prejudice behind. These "jobs" you hope to get once you stop all foreigners coming, would not exist but for talented immigrants and their contributions to the technology sector.

    By the way what makes you think the 65K H1B visas all go to "tech"? Ever heard of Teachers, Researchers, Physicians,Physical therapists..all in short supply and all with no way to work but H1B.

    Tech workers and their problems (retraining or otherwise) are causing much grief for every one else. Do you hear universities or hospitals or their employees complaining?

    Every program should be revaulated and tweaked over time, H1B included. But destrying the program or making it unworkable is hardly a solution.
  14. Mari's Avatar
    If salaries and wage rates tell the real story, we have had a severe surplus of computer people and most STEM fields for the past 10 years. In fact, most white collar business salaries, below the C-level anyway, have been stagnant. Yet, look at the LCA database for H-1Bs, especially for the larger players. This makes no sense whatsover - we keep bringing people in and bringing them in and bringing them in. Back in 2001-2002, mostly tech workers were affected by the mass layoffs - yet the yearly H-1B cap got raised in 2000 to nearly 200K (and that's just the ones that count against the cap) and LEFT THERE FOR THREE YEARS! But since it was mostly nerds who got hit, society as a whole didn't care. Now it's everybody. When will the powers that be see the sheer insanity of continuing to bring in people to do the the jobs that our people are willing and able to do - in fact were doing, until the pink slip hit. What are we going to do, just keep extending unemployment benefits forever, or just let Americans starve in camps while we keep bringing H-1Bs in? The program's gotta change or go.
  15. LFWF's Avatar
    Please also remember that any perceived problems with the H1B are compounded by the number of years workers are forced to spend in that status. Green Card backlogs restrict mobility and promotions. If you want to allow immigrant workers to ask for higher salaries and move up (thus helping everyone), then support a solution to the huge green card backlogs. But no, you would not do that now...right? So what does that tell us?
  16. LFWF's Avatar
    I guess you will stick to the party line and refuse to address any of the issues people have brought up in response. So be it, we are getting used to this kind of stuff. At least you have now figured out that there was no "10 year experiment of massive incraeses".
  17. Robert Burdell's Avatar
    Vivek Wadhwa has proven time and time again that Americans are unsuitable for the demands of the high-tech workplace and cannot adapt to the new Global Economy. As drastic as it sounds, I for one have been slowly coming to the realization that Wadhwa was right about relocating laid off American workers to government detention camps. These camps, once properly admininstered, can humanely solve the problem of the "unemployable" American. Most Americans have some sort of developmental deficit which is why business leaders have noticed the drastic difference between the obvious intelligence of foreign workers and the hopeless condition of laid off American workers. Once transferred to a suitable relocation center, such unwanted human beings can thrive in an environment that suits their low I.Q.'s. Genetic counseling, often leading to sterilization, can ensure that such borderline cases can no longer breed and even advances in brain surgery have made it possible to lobotimize troublesome individuals who have become emotionally unstable when coming into contact with foreigners of much higher abilities and intelligence. Greg Siskind's comments on Wadhwa's relocation proposals have been pulbished in his essay "The Biological Inferiority of the American Working Class: Can Immigration Law Implement a Global 'Final Solution'?" I have seen several comments favorable to Siskind's approach and in combination with Wadhwa's proposal to move inferior Americans away from the new thriving high-tech centers is the only solution that makes sense if America is to become the global tech leader. As cruel as it sounds, Siskind is right. We do not need our future-based society hampered by genetically inferior individuals and the only humane course is their relocation and ultmately, the end of their ability to breed more generations of inferior workers.
  18. Greg SIskind's Avatar
    Robert - You get points for humor. That's probably how I would approach the subject if the facts were not on my side.
  19. Mari's Avatar
    The cap only went down to 65 K due to a sunset provision, but the real total of H-1Bs flooding the country is much, much higher because many institutions such as universities and non-profit organizations don't come under the cap at all - they can bring in as many as they want and it doesn't count. And there is an additional 20K reserved for foreign graduate students. Furthermore, the H-1B visa can be extended beyond 3 years, even beyond 6 years, so the total damage is CUMULATIVE. Most people who work with H-1Bs have horror stories of their incompetence, fakery, or at least mediocre work. Other horrifying stories involve dirty tricks to push the remaining American workers out and replace them with more of their fellows. Most of the Americans who aren't complaining about H-1Bs are silent because they don't understand the problem. Back in 2001 I didn't know what an H-1B was, even as my profession was being decimated. Hundreds of thousands of citizens were laid off, hundreds of thousands of H-1Bs were brought in to replace them. Now, in the latest recession, all professions are being affected, and more people from other professions are having to scale the same learning curve we IT folk did. Fortunately we are now organized and getting the word out. Time to send our rude "guest"workers home!
  20. Greg SIskind's Avatar
    Mari - The cap-exempt H-1Bs are overwhelmingly not IT workers and that's where your original arguments were centered. When a cap-exempt employer seeks to switch to a non-cap-exempt employer, an H-1B number must be available so the 65,000 cap still controls. The loophole that concerns you is having a negligible impact on the IT industry. Again, please stick to facts.
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Put Free Immigration Law Headlines On Your Website

Immigration Daily: the news source for legal professionals. Free! Join 35000+ readers Enter your email address here: