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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

STRATEGERY

Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.

The Wall Street Journal analyzes why Senator Bob Menendez (D-NJ), a long time pro-immigration advocate, blocked AgJobs and H-2B reforms that were backed by the pro-immigration community. They conclude, and I concur, that the substance of the proposals was not the problem despite the insistence of the Senator. The problem is one that has plagued immigration reform efforts for years - the unwillingness of many in the pro-immigration community to accept compromise and incremental improvements.

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  1. JoeF's Avatar
    Unfortunately, I have seen the unwillingness to accept compromise and incremental improvements in the comments here and on other forums as well.
    When the CIR was under consideration, way too many in the immigrant community were against it because it didn't fully match what they wanted to see in it.
    Politics is the art of compromise, and unfortunately, too few people understand that.


  2. hmm's Avatar
    I think smaller bills are generally of better quality because members of congress can actually read the bill and have time to comment on it.

    Unlike many, I did read the text of 2007 CIR and regardless on my opinions on its various parts, the bill was sloppily written and it had numerous contradictions. There are over a hundred of amendments and only very few made it to the floor. It that a proper way to do things? Imagine completely rewriting the tax code in two weeks?

    As for compromises, there are different kinds. It is one thing when you do not get all you want, and it is another when you specifically get hurt by the new bill. Imagine a compromise that gets you, personally, deported? Or postpone your receiving a green card by 10-15 years? It is like a new tax provision that makes you pay 15% of the salary extra for the next 10 years. And in return, yes, this country gets to do all these wonderful humane things that also benefit businesses all over the country. Great compromise paid for by a small group of immigrants.
  3. b's Avatar
    "As for compromises, there are different kinds. It is one thing when you do not get all you want, and it is another when you specifically get hurt by the new bill. ..."

    hmm, forget reasoning with JoeF. He is a hypocrite at best. He has his EB2 ROW GC. Talking about compromises, and incremental changes, yet opposing standalone bills. In addition he is delusional, if he thinks the EB community will be cheering a CIR that does more harm than good. He and some other EB2 ROW refuses to support a CIR that at least not make things worse for EB GC. Talk about being self-centered and closing the door behind on the face of future EB immigrants.

    His only reasoning is look beyond your tea cup something... and fall of the face of the earth.
  4. hmm's Avatar
    I am not arguing with JoeF specifically. This was written mainly for Mr Siskind.

    I remember when 2007 CIR was being discussed some people were scared to death. I have seen people seriously considering leaving US because CIR would make them wait forever for a green card. Also there was another scary part of CIR on restricting parents immigration, and also on restricting visitor visas given to parents of US citizens (one provision in CIR was to institute a special parent visa with draconian rules). The logic behind all this was that, okay, we give unauthorized immigrants some status, but restrict EB and family immigration in return. I have seen people planning to bring their elderly parents to US in the next couple of years, and 2007 CIR scared the hell out of them.
  5. JoeF's Avatar
    "He has his EB2 ROW GC"

    It seems b holds a grudge. He lost his last argument with me...
    Too bad when people who don't have valid arguments try to argue with me. I find out rather quickly that they are just posers...
    And actually, he isn't even up to date. I am a US citizen since 2006...
  6. JoeF's Avatar
    b:
    "Talk about being self-centered and closing the door behind on the face of future EB immigrants."

    LOL. You must be talking about yourself. I am well known for fighting for keeping the doors open.


  7. b's Avatar
    "He lost his last argument with me..."
    Where is the medal.

    "And actually, he isn't even up to date. I am a US citizen since 2006..."
    Hurray!! Sorry for not keeping myself abreast of your life.
    Whatever, dude. Delusions of grandeur I suppose. Truely delusional.

    "You must be talking about yourself. I am well known for fighting for keeping the doors open."

    Yeah right! Anybody who reads your stand on immigration reforms knows your stand on the EB GC "fix", a crazy CIR.

    You can claim victory now. Just don't spill your tea.
  8. Sid's Avatar
    JoeF,

    I consider you to be pro-immigration but I think you are off the mark w.r.t. to CIR 2007. My understanding of a compromise is that you accept some negatives in return for some positives.

    Can you make a list of the positives and negatives for EB ( or even FB) immigrants in CIR 2007? Let's leave out the provisions for illegal immigrants because those provisions are not related to the provisions for legals.

    Before you get all teary-eyed about what happened to CIR 2007 and come to Greg for consolation, I urge you to read what Greg had to say after it was scuttled in the senate.
  9. Sid's Avatar
    This is what Greg had to say -

    "Well, it wasn't even close so my earlier prediction that the CIR cloture vote would be a squeaker proved pretty far off base. While I'm disappointed the process is over since I was looking forward to seeing what the House would do on CIR, it's hard to get too sad about the departure of what was a pretty bad bill. The H-1B taxes, the point system, the silly touchback system are all ideas best left on the trash pile of immigration bi"
    lls that died in the years past."
  10. JoeF's Avatar
    b: Your diatribe confirms nicely what I have been saying... The shoe obviously fit...
  11. b's Avatar
    "Your diatribe confirms nicely what I have been saying... The shoe obviously fit..."

    As far as I am concerned its about immigration reform not about me. If it were I would disclose personal info. Maybe about the highlights in your life as becoming US citizen and such.
  12. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    So, if Joe was EB3-India his argumaents would be insightful, but since he was EB2-ROW, his argument is full of it. I am just amused how easily some people resort to personal attacks when they can't argue any more. No wonder many people of non-Inidan origin feel like they don't belong in the EB movement.
  13. not that simple's Avatar

    If Joe was EB3 ROW it would be different too.
    I suspect that all "EB2 ROW" meant in this case was "one who does not have to wait endlessly" and so (somewhat presumptively) cannot understand or empathize..and (even more presumption here) needs not care about the EB wait.

    Let's not read "India" in everything please.
  14. b's Avatar
    "..but since he was EB2-ROW.."

    Displays lack of reading comprehension which even a English as a fourth language user can spot. I said (not all EB2 ROW) have shown pigheadedness and a delusional expectation from some EB applicant because they do not understand what retrogression means.

    != all. Ask your English teacher.
  15. b's Avatar
    Some characters didn't show in last post.

    "..but since he was EB2-ROW.."

    Displays lack of reading comprehension which even a English as a fourth language user can spot. I said 'he and some' (not all EB2 ROW) have shown pigheadedness and a delusional expectation from some EB applicant because they do not understand what retrogression means.

    'he and some' != all. Ask your English teacher.
  16. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    So, what you mean is that someone argues point A, the point may be valid or invalid based on who's arguing it, not on whether the point is actually valid. Nice reasoning. Enjoy your reading comprehension skills, just remember they don't compensate for the lack of thinking.
  17. JoeF's Avatar
    Legal:
    b just doesn't have any arguments. In some older thread, I took apart his bogus arguments, and since then, he holds a grudge and tries the old, tired ad-hominems.
    He just amuses me nowadays. I am above his petty bickering. It just shows that he still hasn't found any arguments...
  18. b's Avatar
    "So, what you mean is that someone argues point A, the point may be valid or invalid based on who's arguing it, not on whether the point is actually valid."

    Ignoring the fact you lack reading comprehension, did you even read the arguments. For the n-th time, n being a large number,

    (1) JoeF and cohorts says support CIR for the greater good (say like in communism), no to standalone EB bills bills because it harms CIR. Some cohorts (not JoeF on this AFAIK) say standalone DREAM is okay because it will eliminate the need for the pesky H1B who are not assimilated, likely to be less American, unlike the DREAM beneficiaries.

    (2) Some in EB says CIR is fine as long as it does not make things much worse for us. Given there is no CIR, let us try standalone bills.

    (3) JoeF and cohorts accuses us of being selfish and not liking a "compromise" that makes like much worse for EB GC. And some of these cohorts actively opposes bills in the congress that will benefit EB GC.

    (4) I say communism failed. We say we want to improve our lives without harming others unnecessarily. We did not lobby congress against DREAM that was supposed to get rid of the abominable H1Bs that supposedly can't assimilate and become Americans unlike the DREAM beneficiaries.

    Call me what you want but I dislike a deal that harms me. You can call me a racist like the last time when I opposed a European spitting on brown skin if you like.

  19. b's Avatar
    JoeF and LNLW you can continue scratching each others back and keep calling me a racist.

    However, you have not convinced anyone suffering from EB GC retrogression why they should accept more retrogression.

    You can even imagine to declare victory only when you succeed in convincing at least one EB GC retrogression sufferer.

    If wannabe rocket scientist JoeF thinks he has an argument, he is not just delusional but intellectually challenged. Keep to your day job, leave reasoning and logic to us who make a living out of it.
  20. Legal and no longer waiting's Avatar
    b, I am not a rocket scientist, and I am apparently so intellectually challenged that I got totally lost in what you were trying to say, other than you don't give a damn about JoeF because he apparently wishes you poor. I would assume, he is the same JoeF who helped countless people navigate the stormy waters of EB immigration on Murthy's board. Obviously, he's done it because he wishes these people bad.
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