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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

H-2B VISAS USED UP

Rating: 5 votes, 5.00 average.

So much for telling employers to do it the legal way. According to USCIS, the non-immigrant guest worker visa available to employers to bring in lower skilled seasonal and short term visas is officially gone until October of this year. Green cards for these workers are backlogged seven years. Yet the antis tell employers that they just want them to do it the legal way. There IS NO legal way. People who say employers should just do it the legal way are either poorly informed or deliberately trying to mislead.

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  1. Liquidmicro's Avatar
    To say that there IS NO legal way is misleading on your behalf as well.

    Don't forget the TN NAFTA Visa, applicable to Canadian and Mexican Nationals, for which there is no numerical cap for Mexican Nationals:
    Procedure for Mexican Citizens
    Mexican citizens may apply at consular sections around the world for a NAFTA professional (TN) visa.
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1274.html
    http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/EIB11.pdf

    This visa will allow other countries immigrants to come here. If Mexicans and Canadians are coming in on the H2B visa, they should be changed over to the TN visa where applicable.
  2. Legal immigrant's Avatar
    Good job Liquidmicro.... Some time even Lawers need to be educated....

    No offence to Greg Siskind... I appreciate your work towards legal immigrants.
  3. Legal immigrant's Avatar
    Good job Liquidmicro.... Some time even Lawers need to be educated....

    No offence to Greg Siskind... I appreciate your work towards legal immigrants.
  4. Liquidmicro's Avatar
    What about EB3 visas. Seems there are openings there under employment categories.
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_3800.html

    Could there also be the possibility that some of the other visa types that were accepted and granted may be under the wrong designation?
  5. Greg Siskind's Avatar
    Liquidmicro - You need to read up a little on the TN category. It only is available for skilled professionals (akin to the H-1B) and only for a few professions anyway. In most cases, it won't substitute for the H-2B. Thanks for the attempt to educate us, but in this case, you're simply underinformed.
  6. Legal immigrant 's Avatar
    Thanks Greg, you are super...
  7. Liquidmicro's Avatar
    I'm not trying to educate you, after all, you're the lawyer. I am implying that maybe some of the H2B visas could be converted to the TN NAFTA Visa where/if applicable, based on the last sentence in my comment: If Mexicans and Canadians are coming in on the H2B visa, they should be changed over to the TN visa where applicable.

    With job creation declining for Dec 07 and the Fed Unemployment climbing to 5%; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080104/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy;_ylt=A0WTUchMTH5HKs8AhBiyBhIF, and since the H2B Petitions have been maxed for the year, isn't there also the chance that some of the petitions will not be used? Is it a possibility, since in the past, it has fluctuated with our economy, that petitions and worker usage on H2B may begin to decline from here on out?

    I'm trying to find a work around, to where if we need the workers, and there are other viable options, possibly the TN NAFTA Visa or even the EB3 Visa, that may be used, since there is probably going to be nothing accomplished on immigration for the next couple years.
  8. LegalOption's Avatar
    Liquidmicro, you really need to read up more on immigration law. The EB3 visa you are talking about is also known as a green card. The government is currently issuing EB3 green cards for applications received in 2001. Do you think any employer can keep a job open for 7 years waiting to hire someone?
  9. Another voice's Avatar
    "According to USCIS, the non-immigrant guest worker visa available to employers to bring in lower skilled seasonal"

    "If Mexicans and Canadians are coming in on the H2B visa, they should be changed over to the TN visa where applicable."

    They Key word being Low Skill seasonal, meaning that if you read below they will not qualify due to the nature of the requirements on the TN visa.


    Both the NAFTA treaty itself and INS regulations specify which professions qualify for TN status. These are the professions and the degrees required:



    * Accountant--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or C.P.A., C.A., C.G.A., or C.M.A
    * Architect--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Computer Systems Analyst--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post Secondary Certificate and three years' experience
    * Disaster relief insurance claims adjuster (claims adjuster employed by an insurance company located in the territory of a Party, or an independent claims adjuster)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree and successful completion of training in the appropriate areas of insurance adjustment pertaining to disaster relief claims; or three years experience in claims adjustment and successful completion of training in the appropriate areas of insurance adjustment pertaining to disaster relief claims
    * Economist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Engineer--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Forester--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Graphic Designer--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post-Secondary Certificate and three years experience
    * Hotel Manager--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree in hotel/restaurant management; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post-Secondary Certificate in hotel/restaurant management and three years experience in hotel/restaurant management
    * Industrial Designer--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post-Secondary Certificate, and three years experience
    * Interior Designer--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post-Secondary Certificate, and three years experience
    * Land Surveyor--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree or state/provincial/federal license
    * Landscape Architect--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Lawyer (including Notary in the province of Quebec)--L.L.B., J.D., L.L.L., B.C.L., or Licenciatura degree (five years); or membership in a state/provincial bar
    * Librarian--M.L.S., or B.L.S. (for which another Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree was a prerequisite)
    * Management Consultant--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or equivalent professional experience as established by statement or professional credential attesting to five years experience as a management consultant, or five years experience in a field of specialty related to the consulting agreement
    * Mathematician (including Statistician)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Range Manager/Range Conservationist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Research Assistant (working in a post-secondary educational institution)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Scientific Technician/Technologist--Possession of (a) theoretical knowledge of any of the following disciplines: agricultural sciences, astronomy, biology, chemistry, engineering, forestry, geology, geophysics, meteorology, or physics; and (b) the ability to solve practical problems in any of those disciplines, or the ability to apply principles of any of those disciplines to basic or applied research
    * Social Worker--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Sylviculturist (including Forestry Specialist)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Technical Publications Writer--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree, or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post-Secondary Certificate, and three years experience
    * Urban Planner (including Geographer)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Vocational Counselor--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree



    MEDICAL/ALLIED PROFESSIONALS



    * Dentist--D.D.S., D.M.D., Doctor en Odontologia or Doctor en Cirugia Dental or state/provincial license
    * Dietitian--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Medical Laboratory Technologist (Canada)/Medical Technologist (Mexico and the United States) -- Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post-Secondary Certificate, and three years experience
    * Nutritionist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Occupational Therapist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Pharmacist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Physician (teaching or research only)--M.D. Doctor en Medicina; or state/provincial license
    * Physiotherapist/Physical Therapist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license
    * Psychologist--state/provincial license; or Licenciatura Degree
    * Recreational Therapist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Registered nurse--state/provincial license or Licenciatura Degree
    * Veterinarian--D.V.M., D.M.V., or Doctor en Veterinaria; or state/provincial license



    SCIENTISTS



    * Agriculturist (including Agronomist)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Animal Breeder--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Animal Scientist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Apiculturist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Astronomer--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Biochemist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Biologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Chemist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Dairy Scientist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Entomologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Epidemiologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Geneticist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Geochemist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Geologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Geophysicist (including Oceanographer in Mexico and the United States)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Horticulturist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Meteorologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Pharmacologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Physicist (including Oceanographer in Canada)--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Plant Breeder--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Poultry Scientist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Soil Scientist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Zoologist--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree



    TEACHERS



    * College--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * Seminary--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
    * University--Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree
  10. 's Avatar
    What about the EB1 or EB2, which seem to be open? As I stand corrected with the EB3. As I stated, I'm trying to find a work around, to where if we need the workers, and there are other viable options, maybe some can be shifted into other categories. I am of the mindset that there is always a way, there are loop holes in everything.
  11. 's Avatar
    You're talking about farm workers here! How many poor Mexicans are going to be exceptional and internationally recognized in their field (even if that field is cabbages )?
  12. USC's Avatar
    This is not directed at anyone in particular but I am nevertheless reminded of something that I first heard at an Oxford Union debate:

    "Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level then beat you with experience!"

  13. Liquidmicro's Avatar
    How many O and P visa applicants that were denied through those categories are using the H2B visa? Farm workers fall under the H2A category with an unlimited cap, not the H2B with a cap.
  14. confused's Avatar
    liquidmicro,

    i won't question your intentions, but you seem very confused. please differentiate between skilled and unskilled workers, they fall in differnet visa categories.
    EB1- is no substitute, it is for people of extraordinary ability, outstanding professors and multinational executives. it is a reen card not a work visa category
    EB2- advanced degree professionals and national interest waivers (only for highly skilled workers), also a green card. already severly backlogged for india/china and will be for mexico if by some strange way farm workers qualify (they can't). each country is capped at 2800 EB2 GC/year INCLUDING families.
    TN- is again for degree holding skilled professionals.

    this is why a new gues worker program (or a modified one ) is essential if undocumented workers are to be stopped.
  15. Cambridge Union's Avatar
    ---Oxford Union---

    This house is for the notion that the United States should remove quotas from its immigration system as they are inherently racist.
  16. USC's Avatar
    "This house is for the notion that the United States should remove quotas from its immigration system as they are inherently racist......Cambridge Union"

    I would be hardly likely to disagree; not only because I agree with the motion but also because that would be a motion by my own House. I went to Cambridge for my Junior year and am a life member of Cambridge Union. Some of us had gone to Oxford to support our team and that is where I heard the quotation I cited.

    Incidentally, you won't find a Cambridge Union/Oxford Union style debate here because the antis either spew hate or distort the facts. It is unlikely they even know what all this "House" talk means. Perhaps, we should help them out:

    http://www.cambridge-union.org/index.php?page=RGViYXRlcw==

  17. Jack's Avatar
    How must a quota be INHERENTLY racist? It's essentially just a number. What accepted definition of 'racist' reconciles with that statement? I can see the logic of quotas/limitations being, by definition, 'discriminatory', but racist?
  18. Greg Siskind's Avatar
    >>With job creation declining for Dec 07 and the Fed Unemployment climbing to 5%; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080104/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy;_ylt=A0WTUchMTH5HKs8AhBiyBhIF, and since the H2B Petitions have been maxed for the year, isn't there also the chance that some of the petitions will not be used? Is it a possibility, since in the past, it has fluctuated with our economy, that petitions and worker usage on H2B may begin to decline from here on out?
  19. USC's Avatar
    "Seems like the antis hope for bad economic news to make there case. Sad."

    Indeed! The antis are against immigration because they are xenophobes/racists. There is absolutely no economic argument that can justify a restrictionist immigration policy. If you believe in the capitalist system you have to be for free trade, which means goods & SERVICES (meaning free movement of people across borders).

    "How must a quota be INHERENTLY racist?"

    There are many ways to prove this statement. I will just point to one in the context of the immigration system. Germany, Austria & Switzerland are basically the same race. They have three time the quota that India or China have.

    "It's essentially just a number."

    A low one at that. The UK which some here have called an extremely racist country (I completely disagree with that charcterization) does not have a quota for immigrants.

    "I can see the logic of quotas/limitations being, by definition, 'discriminatory', but racist?"

    I agree that they are discriminatory and when they disproportionately impact China, India, Mexico, the Phillilipines then they are also racist.
  20. Mary's Avatar
    Many posters here conveniently ignore the hundreds of thousands of family-based immigrants each year, as if they are not employable or do not exist. They are employable, and they do become a valuable part of the US workforce as they immigrate here. I think the reason they are not discussed is that many of the posters here do not qualify for family-based immigration, and are trying to immigrate through other categories which are oversubscribed. As long as there are many many millions of people trying to immigrate through a system that contains limits, there will be some people who do not qualify to come. This is not fair, but neither is it unfair. Nothing is fair in this world. And it is expected that each person desiring to immigrate here would consider themselves worthy enough that the US should choose them to immigrate.
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