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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

CONSEQUENCES

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For all the huffing and puffing, the bottom line is math.

When your small state has 4.2% unemployment and you chase off tens of thousands of workers, there will be pain. It's time for a real guest worker program.

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  1. Another voice's Avatar
    I guess the moral of the story here is another one bites the dust. These same result happen where ever they try the enforcement only aproach. I hope they feel the pain to realize that is not a smart way to deal with immigration. I am sure these people are saying "Be careful what you wish for you may just get it".
  2. Legal and waiting's Avatar
    The scary thing is the stupidity of the people who made comments to the article. Immigration fiasco is fueling racism and all sort of craziness.
  3. 's Avatar
    "Immigration fiasco is fueling racism and all sort of craziness."

    To be precise, ILLEGAL immigration fiasco is fueling racism and all sort of craziness.
  4. Another voice's Avatar
    "To be precise, ILLEGAL immigration fiasco is fueling racism and all sort of craziness."

    Yeah which means that there is the smart and practical way of handling things and what we have now.
  5. Legal and waiting's Avatar
    "To be precise, ILLEGAL immigration fiasco is fueling racism and all sort of craziness."

    There is no such thing as "illegal immigration fiasco". Immigration system is a fiasco that results in prolifiration of illegal immigration, since there is no other way for these people to come. Simple is that.
  6. 's Avatar
    "There is no such thing as "illegal immigration fiasco". Immigration system is a fiasco that results in prolifiration of illegal immigration, since there is no other way for these people to come. Simple is that."

    Its as simple as putting ,Because I dont have an ATM card or money in my account I will rob the bank.
  7. Legal and waiting's Avatar
    "Its as simple as putting ,Because I dont have an ATM card or money in my account I will rob the bank. "

    Incorrect. More like - I will take a credit line out. Americans are willing participants in all of the "illegal" misdeads. If Americans were not so willing to hire them (which is CRIMINAL, by the way, unlike working without authorization), they would not have been here.

    So, the bank breaks the law by willingly issuing a CRIMINAL loan to that person, and now yelling "Robbery!". That's the American way you are standing for?
  8. 's Avatar
    Hey L&W,

    You sound like you may be able to make common cause with some of the restrictionist point of view. In Alien Nation Brimelow points out how the current immigration system is a "fiasco" that discriminates against employers and workers since the vast majority of green cards go to people with family connections.

    This leaves most workers with no way to immigrate to the US.
    Hence the goal of immigration reform should be to gut the family based system and replace it with one that serves employers and workers.

  9. Legal and waiting's Avatar
    Well, it does make sense to give preference to the employers and needed workers, but the truth is that about 50% of the family system is not going anywhere. How do you think Americans will feel if they would not be able to bring a new spouse or an adopted child with them into the country? How about sponsoring parents? Exactly. That's around 50% of current FB, the unrestricted immediate family part that is not going anywhere for as long as Americans get to vote. The rest of the FB is two parts - overly restricted where it should not be and the ones that are ok to get rid of, provided there is another way to immigrate.

    So, what we are left with is a small number of FBs (20-30%), like adult children and brothers and sisters, who should be able to immigrate through employment system, should that system start working again. I bet many of them would rather take a 2 year EB route than a 15 year FB route, so I really see no opposition here. But to get the EB system working, either quotas should be canceled or dramatically increased.

    So, no, I am not really on the same page with the restricationists. Immigration is good for the country.
  10. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar

    20-30% of FB is a small number?
    33% of FB if moved to EB would increase EB 4 times!!
    the problem is precisely with that 33%.
    and if you think removing that has no opposition..think again!
    no one wants to let go of what they have.
  11. 's Avatar
    "How do you think Americans will feel if they would not be able to bring a new spouse or an adopted child with them into the country? How about sponsoring parents? "

    The proposed solution to this is two parts -

    1. Returning to a 14 year waiting period for naturalization.

    2. Elimination of the FB categories for spouses/children of LPRs.

    Given that much of this demand is driven by recent immigrants these two changes will reduce demand and increase the odds of people finding a spouse from within the US.
  12. 's Avatar
    And moving to a guestworker program is also one of Brimelow's recommendations as a good way to transition from the current system without unnecessary hardship.
  13. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar

    no name,

    Many people are already married when they get an green card. others are on the verge of getting married. spouses and children are hardly the people to target. I would strongly agree that extended families need to be curtailed especially entire families of adult siblings. That alone would make a big difference rather than targeting immediate family members.
    14 year naturalization is de facto already true. >10 years to a GC and THEN another 5 years of "character checking".
    but really is it not better to encourage immigrants to become Americans sooner rather than wait so very long? let them be true participants and be invested in the country's future imho.
  14. Sid's Avatar
    "Given that much of this demand is driven by recent immigrants these two changes will reduce demand and increase the odds of people finding a spouse from within the US."

    Presumably, the reason for GC quotas for spouses of LPRs is to encourage them to assimilate and marry US citizens. I've never understood why the same logic does not apply to citizens. It's more likely that the citizens have grown up in the US, have assimilated to a greater extent than LPRs and will find it easier to connect with another citizen. LPRs often find it very hard to connect romantically with US citizens because of the accent and cultural differences.

    IMO, either the quota for immediate family members for LPRs should be removed or it should be applied to US citizens as well.
  15. 's Avatar
    "Many people are already married when they get an green card. others are on the verge of getting married. spouses and children are hardly the people to target."

    The idea is to differentiate between the long term citizen who happens to fall in love with a foreigner and the newly arrived immigrant/citizen who is now trying to marry and bring over someone from the home country.

    "I would strongly agree that extended families need to be curtailed especially entire families of adult siblings. That alone would make a big difference rather than targeting immediate family members."

    In 2006 spouses and children were 54.6% of total LPRs admitted, while siblings constituted 5%. As a result of this imbalance only targetting immediate family members will make a big difference.

    ">10 years to a GC and THEN another 5 years of "character checking".
    is it not better to encourage immigrants to become Americans sooner rather than wait so very long?"

    This is not true for everyone. It holds true for a small fraction of people caught in EB retrogression who happen to hold a work visa or those waiting for an asylee petition. The idea behind increasing the wait times for naturalization is to ensure that people nationalize and drop ties to the home country before they naturalize.


  16. 's Avatar
    "So, no, I am not really on the same page with the restricationists. Immigration is good for the country"

    Again, the restrictionists agree with you. In fact the term restrictionist is a misnomer, a more accurate term may be reformer. A common theme is that reformers think the current system is broken, and you certainly have said you believe the current immigration system is a "fiasco".

    The reformers don't want to cut off immigration, just change its composition. As Brimelow puts it in Alien Nation -

    "The problem is not necessarily immigration in principle - it's immigration in practice. Specifically, it's the workings of the 1965 Immigration Act and its subsequent amendments."
  17. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar
    In 2006 spouses and children were 54.6% of total LPRs admitted, while siblings constituted 5%. As a result of this imbalance only targetting immediate family members will make a big difference.


    just curious- does that figure come from FB? or is that total including EB? also that figure is likely to include citizens, or doe they have different numbers? assuming there are children involved we really are not talking about someone that goes "out to find a spouse" after getting a GC. a child suggests there is a more established family. restricting immediate family from entering would be a serious detriment to any immigrant....

    siblings may be only 5%- but remember they are adults and they then bring their families. so presuming the above number is for LPR's only and FB only, a chunk of that 54.6% does come with the siblings- let's say another 5-7 % (could well be more since these are mature families). so pretty much everyone agrees (except the absolute family proponents who can block it all) that we can at least get back 12% of the numbers- that would double EB straight away.
  18. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar
    This is not true for everyone. It holds true for a small fraction of people caught in EB retrogression who happen to hold a work visa or those waiting for an asylee petition. The idea behind increasing the wait times for naturalization is to ensure that people nationalize and drop ties to the home country before they naturalize.


    does this mean you agree that if someone has been here 10 years already, the need for another 5 years waiting is moot...?
  19. Jack's Avatar
    'is it not better to encourage immigrants to become Americans sooner rather than wait so very long? let them be true participants'

    Exactly. Which is why I think guest worker programs are inherently 'anti'. Not just anti-immigrant but anti-democratic. I am a very civic-minded, pro-democracy person and view people as more than 'labor' or 'workers'. Democracy is served by getting as many people as we can involved in government and getting big business OUT of government. Having even a small % of our population permanently shut out of democracy is a bad, un-American thing. The guest worker concept is of big business, by big business, and for big business.

    'It's time for a real guest worker program'

    I am fairly new here and you've probably described your vision before, but would appreciate a brief summary of what is a 'real' guest worker program?

  20. Greg Siskind's Avatar
    >>'is it not better to encourage immigrants to become Americans sooner rather than wait so very long? let them be true participants'

    Exactly. Which is why I think guest worker programs are inherently 'anti'. Not just anti-immigrant but anti-democratic
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