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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

BUSH VETOES LABOR/HHS SPENDING BILL

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Thanks to readers who quickly alerted me to this development. There are folks working behind the scenes to see about potentially getting the temporary allotment of nurses restored to the bill, but the chances are still very iffy in getting this accomplished.

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  1. indianGuy's Avatar
    I hope the nurses visa does not get into the bill. Those nurses are greatly needed in countries like India and other underdeveloped countries. I have no sympathy for these nurses. They should not get subsidized education India and leave the country the first chance they get.
  2. wildfire's Avatar
    Indianguy writes: "I hope the nurses visa does not get into the bill. Those nurses are greatly needed in countries like India and other underdeveloped countries. I have no sympathy for these nurses. They should not get subsidized education India and leave the country the first chance they get."

    Huh?

    I don't support giving away visas that rightfully belong to all backlogged EB applicants to one special categor (if the concept of recapture is acceptable, then the fair thing to do is to give those visas back to the people from whom they were taken.)

    BUT

    I fail to comprehend your logic. What about all the IIT engineers whose education was subsidized by India? Or for that matter all the science grads whose education was subsidized by India? All of them left the first chance they got, right?

  3. LW's Avatar
    I agree with Indian guy. When engineers and business people leave India it's not a loss for India. Most of those Engineers with rise up in the corporate ladder and create jobs in India or bring business to India using their positions. I have seen this happen a lot. Many of those engineers come to US, learn new stuff and go back to India taking with them valuable skills. I have seen that happen a lot too. I know quite a few people who have gone back to India permanently even after becoming US citizens.

    But with doctors and nurses, once they leave India, it's a total loss for India. A nurse in US does the exact same things as a nurse in India and a nurse will always be a nurse. It's kind of like Mexico exporting toilet cleaners to US. The only thing Mexico gains out of this is money remitted back to Mexico. Mexico is the number one country in the world in terms of the fraction of GDP being remittance from abroad. I don't want this to happen to India.
  4. 's Avatar
    I'm feel sorry for your selfishness. Those nurses need a future too...just like you. That's why they come here in America --to get a better pay.

    In the meantime, do you know about the nursing shortage? Have you been hospitalized before? Have you seen how the patients suffer in the hospital due to lack of nursing care? We need nurses in the US more than anybody else.

    Those countries should try to increase the standards of nursing in their countries---respect their nurses, give them a good pay to support their family. Maybe, if those country would do that, their nurses would stay...THINK ABOUT IT.
  5. 's Avatar
    President Bush--do you pray?
  6. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar

    so very convenient.
    doctors and nurses should stay back
    engineers and managers are a boon even when they leave.
    thanks, i had a good laugh, it's so funny it's sad.
    you have little understanding of the reality of these professions clearly. besides who are these guys? immigrants? or trolls?
  7. BOB_UK's Avatar
    I pitty the guy who talks about the need of nurses in India.Why didn't he choose nursing rather than and IT qualification to serve the nation if thay are very much in need.
    Will he advise his sister or wife to work in India despite a chance to work in USA?

    Let us compare the number of vacancies of IT guys and nurses in USA .

    Read this article in (CNN) -- The nursing shortage sweeping the United States may be worse than even the medical community expected. By the year 2008, another 450,000 nurses may be needed to meet demand, according to government projections.


    There is NO shortage of IT guys in USA. they need IT guys from India to get the things done little cheep and it is purely to boost business profit .
    But a nurse has nothing to do with business and it is purely about the healthcare of its citizens and they don't have alternatives in US.In Fact The It guys rob American Jobs but The nurses NOT.
  8. Suja Boban's Avatar
    I dont understand why you are comparing a RN with the IT.
    We RN are more needed in US than IT.So just shutup and watch the allotment of more visas for nurses.
  9. Cal Nurse's Avatar
    "In Fact The It guys rob American Jobs but The nurses NOT."

    I am a member of california nurses association and I disagree with that. All foreigners are here to steal our jobs.

    "they need IT guys from India to get the things done little cheep and it is purely to boost business profit .
    "

    Same is the case with nurses too. Hospitals are for profit
    businsess too.

    "But a nurse has nothing to do with business and it is purely about the healthcare of its citizens"

    BOB_UK the above statement shows how much you are in touch with reality
  10. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar
    Cal Nurse,

    They can't steal jobs that cannot be filled here. The fact is that foreign workers are a band aid, and the US needs more nursing schools and more local grads. The fact is also that that this will take many years to happen. Meanwhile RN salaries are through the roof, the shortage is severe and recruiting nurses is a nightmare - btw I'm not a nurse but I know this first hand. This is anot a "job steal" or "cheap labor issue". So the CNA's constant anti immigrant lobbying is nothing but pure selfishness to keep salaries rising and assure themselves the pick of jobs anytime with absolute mobility. You talk about stealing...but a true professional is one that makes sure a job is done...and you are making sure here that it's not done..as long as you do better all the time. Shame.

    No worry though, the public will see the crisis eventually, be happy - it will be short lived, not because you won't still have great jobs and salaries, but because this stupid corner you have painted yourself into will cave in on you.
  11. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar

    "All foreigners are here to steal our jobs."

    and since the entitre nation was built by immigrants that must be par for the course? I would hate to be an RN in Cal, anyone not white enough is probably treated like dirt by these folks.


  12. Greg Siskind's Avatar
    >>"All foreigners are here to steal our jobs."

    and since the entitre nation was built by immigrants that must be par for the course? I would hate to be an RN in Cal, anyone not white enough is probably treated like dirt by these folks.
  13. indianGuy's Avatar
    Dear Mr. Siskind:

    I know that this will some as a surprise to you but "It's all about the money" for the foreign nurses too. All these nurses that want to come here and help the sick and the elderly can get jobs in India too if they wanted. Insetad they figured that they will make more money by coming to USA. I guess the sick and the elderly in India can go to hell, right?

    There is a critical shortage of doctors and nurses willing to go to rual areas in India.

    Jimmy Carter was right.
  14. Dream Act guy's Avatar
    indianGuy, using your logic, you should also go back to India and help out your home country especially the rural areas. Another plus in moving back to India is that you won't be a hypocrite there.
  15. Greg Siskind's Avatar
    Show me evidence of the Indian government asking nurses not to emigrate (as is the case for the African countries Carter has discussed).
  16. indianGuy's Avatar
    Dream Act Guy : I oppose increasing the h-1b visas. 65k + 20k is the right number. If h-1b numbers increase, there will be 200k Indians moving to USA every year. This will drive up labor costs in India and erode India's competitiveness. If companies want cheaper/skilled labor, they should offshore their entire design cycle to places like India. That is actually going to happen if h-1b numbers stay the same or go down. This will be a big plus for India's economy in the future.

    Mr. Siskind : Indian government cannot explicitly forbid or penalize anyone who wants to leave because that is not possible in a democracy.
  17. indian's Avatar
    It is hypocritical for IT people to say nurses and doctors should serve in rural India and themselves come to US. Indian govt. subsidies engineering and medical studies. However, the comparison is not one to one.

    Most of the stuff they teach in engineering school is quite useless to the local economy. Forget the metros. In rural areas, people hardly get electricity, forget high-tech. The unemployment among engineers is very high... most end up taking up non-engineering jobs. Unemployment for doctors and nurses not an issue, and even rural areas without electricity or any industry could use them.

    Just based on personal experience ... friends, family in engineering and medical fields.
  18. legal-forever-waiting-forever's Avatar

    Indian Guy

    You keep revealing your ignorance. India produces so many doctors that the Medical Council wants to limit the number of places in each college to WHO standards (max 100). No government will do it though- it's very unpopular given the competition to get in. Also the small fraction of doctors that leaves changes precisely nothing. India offers post grad training to less than 10% of graduating doctors. The rest rot. As for going to rural areas...hey they need engineers, teachers AND IT folks too- they would greatly benefit from the tech jump. So please walk the talk...
  19. Legal Immi's Avatar
    "Mr. Siskind : Indian government cannot explicitly forbid or penalize anyone who wants to leave because that is not possible in a democracy."

    Really , Tell me about indian democracy that elects people like Narendra Modi. If indian government wants to restrict the movement of nurses they can pretty much do.

  20. indianGuy's Avatar
    "Most of the stuff they teach in engineering school is quite useless to the local economy. Forget the metros. In rural areas, people hardly get electricity, forget high-tech. The unemployment among engineers is very high... most end up taking up non-engineering jobs. Unemployment for doctors and nurses not an issue, and even rural areas without electricity or any industry could use them.

    Just based on personal experience ... friends, family in engineering and medical fields.

    Posted by: indian | November 14, 2007 at 02:47 PM "

    What this guy writes is exactly right. Finally, someone understands the deal.
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