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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy

OUTRAGE OF THE DAY #2: EVER HEARD OF FINGERPRINTS?

Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.

Another day and another American citizen mistakenly jailed as an illegal immigrant. This time it is Alicia Rodriguez, a mother of three and an accountant in Texas. She was mixed up with a woman of the same name who was deported three times back to Mexico. So presumably the deported was fingerprinted when she was removed from the country which would mean that ICE could easily have figured out they had the wrong woman.



But wait, it wasn't ICE who detained the woman. It was the Arlington, Texas police who were acting under a 287(g) agreement where they could detain people and transfer them over the ICE. And that means we're going to see more of this kind of nonsense as police forces around the country enforce immigration laws but lack the competence and the tools to do the job properly.



[MEANT TO THANK READER TX FOR THIS TIP. THANKS TX]

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Comments

  1. hmm's Avatar
    Greg, how does this work with offences that are not immigration related? If someone named Greg Suskind (not you) is wanted for a hit-and-run or shoplifting, and you get stopped by traffic police, could not they make a mistake and arrest you? Please tell me if this is wrong but my guess is that such mistakes happen pretty often and nobody makes any fuss about it.
  2. Greg Siskind's Avatar
    A police officer would have a drivers license that would have your photo, your social security number, drivers license number, exact date of birth, etc. So it would not happen in the circumstances you mention for a US citizen or permanent resident in those circumstances. The problem here is that ICE has the data to be able to figure out the person is not the same and not the police. The police have to just assume the person is the wanted one and then wait for ICE to verify. ICE isn't always responsive in getting back with the police so the innocent person sits and sits with the criminals waiting for the matter to be cleared up. For all you legal immigrants on this board who hate illegal aliens so much, the person rotting in jail could be you. The drive to force every illegal out of the country rather than putting them on a legalization path will have all sorts of unintended consequences.
  3. hmm's Avatar
    So again it all boils down to making IDs with info on US citizenship/PR, and to better funding for ICE.

    BTW, I am certainly not the one opposing legalization of illegal immigrants. But to make it all work the Government would have to build much more efficient USCIS and ICE which would require lots of money. As far as I know nowadays USCIS mostly gets funded by fees for EAD, AP, and AOS, N-400, biometrics applications, and the Government (i.e. the taxpayer) does not contribute anything. So the prospective immigrants (those paying for EAD, AP etc) would have to pay for all this mess created by years of government neglect, while US citizens pay nothing. I feel that a right thing to do would be have a comprehensive government study of what businesses make most money on illegal immigration, and them tax those businesses sendiing the money to USCIS. Of course, most taxes'd get passed to the consumers (i.e. all of us) and not just prospective immigrants, which is perfectly okay.

  4. USC's Avatar
    "So again it all boils down to making IDs with info on US citizenship/PR"

    And everyone would be required to carry them at all times. Kinda like the hated pass laws from the recent South African apartheid era and like Nazi Germany's id cards from earlier in history. Sure, lets do that in the US also.
  5. USC's Avatar
    Sorry, I left out the links:

    "The document was similar to an internal passport, containing details on the bearer such as their fingerprints, photograph, the name of his/her employer, his/her address, how long the bearer had been employed, as well as other identification information. Employers often entered a behavioural evaluation, on the conduct of the pass holder."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_laws

    http://www.preventgenocide.org/prevent/removing-facilitating-factors/IDcards/
  6. hmm's Avatar
    All noncitizens are already required to carry GC or passport, so what?

    I think, walking around without an ID is one "right" the US citizens should give up, and I do not believe this is so hard -- I am carrying my wallet all the time, and another plastic card would not make a difference. Nobody complains about carrying driver's licence while driving, and this is when most likely an average person could be stopped by police.
  7. hmm's Avatar
    Speaking of Germany. a few years ago I was trying to buy a monthly bus ticket there. It required completeing a two-page-form with detailed info about my parents and grandparents, and the ticket had my photograph. Regular (quite expensive) tickets were also available.


  8. hmm's Avatar
    I think the main reason so many states oppose to the national ID is that the Government does not want to pay for it, so here we come to poor funding again. Privacy concerns are secondary.

    I am personally much more annoyed by the requirement to take off my shoes and belt buckle at the airport security. Another plastic card in the pocket does not hurt nearly as much.
  9. USC's Avatar
    "All noncitizens are already required to carry GC"

    So, another id is needed, why?

    "so what?"

    Read the link.

    For one, it would lead to mass deportation of the illegals, now and in years to come.

    "I think, walking around without an ID is one "right" the US citizens should give up"

    Are you a US citizen?

    "So the prospective immigrants (those paying for EAD, AP etc) would have to pay for all this mess created by years of government neglect, while US citizens pay nothing"

    Seems like you don't like US citizens! In any event, your logic is severely flawed. CIR would have required the illegals to pay fines PLUS application fees. Legal immigrants wouldn't be subsidizing them. In fact, the USCIS would have received a windfall 12 million at $1000 an application would have equalled $12 Billion.

    "I feel that a right thing to do would be have a comprehensive government study of what businesses make most money on illegal immigration, and them tax those businesses sendiing the money to USCIS."

    Thanks for the suggestion. I suspect that Americans would be up in arms in having to pay another tax so that immigrants could pay a lower fee. Numbers USA would love this one.

    "I am personally much more annoyed by the requirement to take off my shoes and belt buckle at the airport security."

    LOL!! No wonder we had four hijackings on 9/11.



  10. hmm's Avatar
    "So, another id is needed, why?"

    For me it would so much better: passport just does not fit into my wallet.

    "Read the link."

    You'd be suprised but there are countries nowadays where everybody must carry the internal passport at all times e.g. Russia. I would not call Russia a democracy but surely requiring to carry a passport is not the reason.

    "For one, it would lead to mass deportation of the illegals, now and in years to come."

    I think they should be legalized. And for the future many more people should be let in (legally) to fill those jobs.

    "Seems like you don't like US citizens! In any event, your logic is severely flawed. CIR would have required the illegals to pay fines PLUS application fees. Legal immigrants wouldn't be subsidizing them. In fact, the USCIS would have received a windfall 12 million at $1000 an application would have equalled $12 Billion."

    CIR is dead, but speaking of CIR it would take much more money to build an efficient immigration system. My fees and the 5K they wanted to take from Z-applicants would not be enough. When I talk about legal immigrants subsidising USCIS this is a fact: the agency is fee-based. And it needs huge amount of funding now, BEFORE they start legalizing anybody.

    "Thanks for the suggestion. I suspect that Americans would be up in arms in having to pay another tax so that immigrants could pay a lower fee."

    Democrats want to do charity at the expense of legal immigrants. They feel sorry for illegal immigrants, well so do I, but let's all contribute to the cause -- my money ain't going to be enough to fix the problem.
    Note that the problem of illegal immigrants was created by the Government, so they should be the first to contribute. They do pay for ICE etc, but this is peanats.
  11. USC's Avatar
    "You'd be suprised"

    No I wouldn't.

    "but there are countries nowadays where everybody must carry the internal passport at all times e.g. Russia."

    I believe that is exactly why many of us prefer to live in the US as opposed to countries, where any cop can accost you on the street for any reason or no reason and ask to see your id

    "I would not call Russia a democracy but surely requiring to carry a passport is not the reason."

    Certainly, that would be one reason.

    Now consider this scenario. Imagine, that someone is Russian-American. Five years from now Russia and America are at war. Assuming we have a national ID, some government official could print-out a list of Russian-American citizens. Lo and behold they would be rounded up overnight, as enemy aliens, their property confiscated and their new home would be the internment camps. Remember the fate of the Japanese Americans during WW II?
  12. hmm's Avatar
    Oh, I thought I was paranoid.. So where are Afgani concentration camps? Isn't US at war? By of course you are right. These things could happen especially to someone from Russia, or China. I would not say this is likely though.

    Your solution to these fears is weak inefficient goverment that does not have a clue who is inside the borders. At this point I have no further comments.
  13. USC's Avatar
    "Your solution to these fears is weak inefficient goverment that does not have a clue who is inside the borders."

    When you cite Russia as an example in favor of the argument for internal passports you prove my point.

    Q.E.D.

    "At this point I have no further comments."

    You just commented but OK.
  14. hmm's Avatar
    "When you cite Russia as an example in favor of the argument for internal passports you prove my point."

    I never said Russia's passport system should be a model for US. In fact it is probably no fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_passport
    especially because the passport does not fit in the wallet.

    I was simply trying to broaden your horisons, 'cause you seem to be unaware that in some parts of the world people are quite content with internal passports and do not seem to think of it as a big deal. This is all a matter of customs. Here in the US people are used to drug tests at work, while this is unheard of in the country I came from. Similarly, with background checks at my work. I hear that very soon I will have to report any arrest or conviction to my supervisor (not that I had any but this is worrisome). The list goes on. You just accept some things as no big deal. All I say national id is no big deal too.

  15. TX's Avatar
    welcome Greg.

    I guess with REAL ID now only 1.5 years away we will all be carrying a national I.D and would all be identified instantaniously, so no worries......... Thanks Mr. Nonsensenbrenner.
  16. JUN's Avatar
    Forcing everyone to carry an ID all the time will increase the cases of identity theft....
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