SESSIONS WARNS THAT VOTES ON AGJOBS AND DREAM ACT ARE COMING SOON

Congressional Quarterly is reporting that Senator Jeff Sessions, the anti-immigration Senator who led the opposition to the comprehensive immigration reform bill in the Senate earlier this year, is warning colleagues that the Senate will try to attach AgJobs and DREAM Act provisions to appropriations bills coming up soon. The strategy is hardly news, but the tone makes it sound like these provisions stand a reasonable chance of passage.

Comments

[nc]

The antis are gearing up again, why cant we unite to support immigration reform? Immigration reform is not only for people who came here illegaly. Many people waited years to come in legally, paid all taxes and SS and are out of status due to the incompetency of govn. agencys. Many others are waiting years for their papers. The whole system is broken. Please support the online petition at http://citizenspeak.org/node/1140.

[Lou Dobbs]

Why can't you guys talk normally??

Why we use the words like idiot,whiner,disgusting kind of words...??? Are you guys really high skilled ?

That's why I always whine about you guys..

[Dream Act guy]

First impressions are important, KC. If you read your comments on this blog post, you sound a bit unhinged.

[KC]

>>>Judging by your comments, you're not a very good advocate for your cause.<<<<

Thats a new one now...after "pureblood" "bitter" "mean-spirited", etc , etc, etc.

Thanks for this VERY invaluable advice. I have patiently spent months and years now "calmly" writing long letters, contributing money to IV and, and "calmly" calling the offices of the congressmen. I wasn't calling or writing to oppose DREAM bill.

The sheer hypocrisy of the illegal lobby and their democratic backers has been astonishing.

[Dream Act guy]

You need to calm down KC. Judging by your comments, you're not a very good advocate for your cause.

[KC]

>>>Does it make me a better human being?...<<<

Is this what you learnt while on J-1 visa???funny....simply being a jerk and resorting to inane comments like this? where did any EB immigrant say here we are better human beings than illegals.

[bob]

L&W - I'm not saying it was a horror, but yes, over the years it takes its toll. I've also seen many F-1 undergrad students work illegally (off the books) to pay for their tuition and living expenses, and many of these people don't have any easier life than most illegals. Some of them even became illegal due to financial problems (i.e. couldn't pay for school any more, etc.) I know such people, and I know how hard it is to maintain legal status under certain circumstances.

I just don't appreciate your comments. There are people here coming and expressing their opinion about what they believe is important or not in terms of immigration laws and bills, and you come and attack them as being selfish and "purebloods", making insinuations of racism that are completely baseless.

Don't be scared! Nobody here on this forum is going to make or break the Dream Act. We'll see if it will pass or not. I honestly don't believe any legal immigrant on this forum will want to hurt illegals or to lobby against them. People are just being outraged that those in Washington (namely some of the Democrats) have their priorities wrong.

[Legal Immi]

"No, you should not be ashamed of being legal. Unfortunatly, being legal does not make you a better human being, but apparently, you don't care."

No one here is talking about who is better human being and who is not. At least my point is whether the proposed legislation is fair or not. By any means this is an unfair legislation.

[Legal and waiting]

bob, oh my god, you had to struggle so much! I was on a J visa too. One of those USIA sponsered exchange felowships, 10 people per one of those spots. Had to go home for 4 year before coming back for grad school. What a frigging horror! Does it make me a better human being?... I don't think so.

Whiners...

[Legal and waiting]

Well, guess what, the American anti-immigrants totally agree with you. They think they are pureblodds who deserve to live here, and you are all job stealing weird speaking foreigners who should be sent back. Welcome to your dreamworld.

No, you should not be ashamed of being legal. Unfortunatly, being legal does not make you a better human being, but apparently, you don't care.

[bob]

Btw, I also went to high school here when I was 16 and graduated from a US high school, but Dream Act will do nothing for me because I was legal and then went back to my home country for 2 years before returning to the US for college.

[Legal Immi]

"
Yes! As a matter of fact, I do believe I deserve better for following the rules and not breaking the law, other achievements put aside. I came here legally, learned English, earned advanced degrees, and have a high-paying job. And I am not ashamed of this!

When you have a system that rewards and gives priority to illiterate people and law-breakers, then you have a problem. And no matter what humanitarian principles you may apply, legal immigrants should always come first before illegals simply because they followed the law that's already on the books. If you want to change the law, then go ahead, but don't try to make people feel ashamed that they are legal just because they're telling you the truth. Your comments are disgusting!"

Well said ...

[bob]

>> And you are, of course, an unafirly treated pureblood, who deserves the best. <<

Yes! As a matter of fact, I do believe I deserve better for following the rules and not breaking the law, other achievements put aside. I came here legally, learned English, earned advanced degrees, and have a high-paying job. And I am not ashamed of this!

When you have a system that rewards and gives priority to illiterate people and law-breakers, then you have a problem. And no matter what humanitarian principles you may apply, legal immigrants should always come first before illegals simply because they followed the law that's already on the books. If you want to change the law, then go ahead, but don't try to make people feel ashamed that they are legal just because they're telling you the truth. Your comments are disgusting!

[Legal and waiting]

In a way, I am one of them. I was out of the country on May 1, 2006, otherwise, I would have taken a day off and went to suport immigration reform. The bill flopped long before that date, so it made no sense to protest against it.

[Legal Immi]

I am flying from west coast to D.C FYI.

"Because of people like you, their job got a lot harder"

I thought you were part of "them"

Did you protest the Sensenbrenner bill?

[Legal and waiting]

Immi, no I am not making fun of them. Because of people like you, their job got a lot harder. I would bet you are not going to DC, either.

[Legal and waiting]

"But not surprising to hear this language from people who either cheated,lied and came in illegally and /or trying to come through entitlemnt through family petition. "

And you are, of course, an unafirly treated pureblood, who deserves the best. With such attitude, when you get your greeen card, may want to go to join Michelle Malkin on Fox News every week talking how you had to struggle that green card out of dirty Mexican hands.

[Legal Immi]

You did not want them to trade with your chips - hey, you need to rejoyce now! You have all of the chips to yourself, and guess what, you will now have to to Washington to rally for your pitiful self because all of those chips you saved from Sen. Kennedy are not worth anything.

I did feel happy when CIR failed for various reasons I dont want to lie about that. When millions of illegals rallied with mexican flags you did not have a problem and you make fun of people if they are legal and rally ...

[Legal and waiting]

KC, those who are not generous to others will pay twice the price. EBs could have gotten it quite easy if they rallied 6 moths ago. No, they were too proud to get mixed up with those dirty illegals. It's going to be a lot more expensive now.

[KC]

>>>>you will now have to to Washington to rally for your pitiful self <<<

Interesting language....to describe people who entered here legally, went to college here....went through all the visas in the alphabetical soup... acquired degrees, meticulously obeyed each and every law of the land.... and many have done this for 10-12 years.....al in the foolish fantasy that this country stands for higher values...apparently not

But not surprising to hear this language from people who either cheated,lied and came in illegally and /or trying to come through entitlemnt through family petition.

[Greg Siskind]

""Well, given that there are millions of more jobs in America than Americans - including the unemployed seeking work - the unlawfully present immigrants filling those jobs fill a vital need. Simple math". Greg: I never argued with that. Deporting them would be hard on economy. But leaving things as they are (i.e. illegal immigrants can stay and come, if illegally) may well be economically sound option."

Ahh, the third way - legalize, deport or do nothing. You don't hear the "do nothing" option much, though I admire your honesty. Doing nothing is what we effectively have had for several years and many of the biggest anti-immigration voices are really do nothing advocates since they know that nothing will get done given the division in the country, but they get points anyway for throwing red meat to the base.

[Legal and waiting]

KC, you are so dillusional. Looks like you followed CIR by watching Lou Dobbs. Go to Gregg Siskind web-site and read all of the incarnations of the CIR, and then tell us that is had nothing to do with legal immigration.

[Legal and waiting]

immi, yes, legal immigrants were used as chips for bargaining. As I said, there are life-threatening deseases, and there is flu. And when you have to bargain with the devil (aka Sen. Sessions), human lives are just chips. So what, I can wait another year. Yes, it may be uncomfortable and irritating, but it is not mind-numbingly debilitating, like it is for other people. I realize that, so go ahead, Sen. Kennedy, trade with my chips, I trust that he will make sure we will get what we deserve (and Bill Gates will help us, too).

You did not want them to trade with your chips - hey, you need to rejoyce now! You have all of the chips to yourself, and guess what, you will now have to to Washington to rally for your pitiful self because all of those chips you saved from Sen. Kennedy are not worth anything.

[Dream Act guy]

The House would have used the Strive Act and its much better than the Senate CIR bill. In conference dominated by Democrats, legislation would have mirrored the Strive Act much more than the Senate CIR bill. We just had to get to that point.

For legal immigrants, check out Title V of the Strive Act. Plus, the Strive Act would not have eliminated the family/employment based immigration system.

Also, yes, I will correct my previous comments and say that the Senate CIR bill would have eliminated the family based category backlogs not the EB backlogs.

[hmm]

"Well, given that there are millions of more jobs in America than Americans - including the unemployed seeking work - the unlawfully present immigrants filling those jobs fill a vital need. Simple math".

Greg: I never argued with that. Deporting them would be hard on economy. But leaving things as they are (i.e. illegal immigrants can stay and come, if illegally) may well be economically sound option.

[KC]

Tribalism, prejudice, utter disregard for justice and fair play ...these are all well alive...that's the conclusion I make after having futile interaction with the illegal lobby on this board.

first you lied that CIR was great for "legal" immigrants...then when we pointed out that that was not true then you come up with b.s that it would have been improved in the House and conference! When lies run out just say "you are mean-spirited"...easy way out.

[legal-forever-waiting-forever]

points based system like everything else has good and bad in general, in this particular case- consider this.
10% country quota. from high immigration countries, any individual that wanted a GC and did not have a relative citizen/PR could get a max of 90 points. BUt this was only possible if you were in STEM. Otherwise you lose 8 + 8 points and can make only 74, however good you are (some in health care would get to 82). BUT the thereshold would never fall below 90 in all likelihood- so any non stem Indian or Chinese person could say goodbye and leave- no point applying all you life and never making it. This was one serious problem with it- the presumption that only STEM was worth anything.
Anyway country quotas were retained in a so called
merit system. So if i'm from india my 82 points mean nothing in front of the 70 point colombian/frenchman/sri lankan...whever...just random examples...
yeah yeah i know ROW folks love the country quotas (not all but many)- in the same breath they call americans racist and support these quotas. racism is racism when directed at you, it's "diversity" when it targets others and benefits you...

[hmm]

point system was bad because it took power from employers (who know better what is that they need) and gave it to USCIS and Dept of Labor, who as we know do not have a clue..

[KC]

>>>>That would be a lot more productive<<<<

You are talking about being productive????

Read the posts that are ALREADY HERE by my fellow EB immigrants...that would be more productive.

[Greg Siskind]

"l&w: why is it obvious that "legalizing illegal immigrants is good for the economy"? This is far from obvious. One should surely do it on humanitarian grounds, but economy is hard to predict..."

Well, given that there are millions of more jobs in America than Americans - including the unemployed seeking work - the unlawfully present immigrants filling those jobs fill a vital need. Simple math.

[Legal and waiting]

CIR 2006-2007 My view. It talked a lot about legal immgiration. EB was addressed many times and put back and taken out depending on what was the approach to satisfy the blood thirsty anti-immigrant senators. The original plan was to increase number of visas to 400K and exclude family members. Then it was cut in an attempt to get it through the Senate, so it can be put back in the House version. Point-based system was introduced, which would allow most of the future EB applicants to easily self-petition for green cards (why's that bad, I dont' know).

[Legal and waiting]

KC, would you please call us on our lies instead of just jupping about them. That would be a lot more productive.

[legal-forever-waiting-forever]

CIR 2007
please read this carefully again- yes I did read it.
8 years was the deadline to clear family based immigrants
throughout the debate they talked about "legal" immigrants
and almoest always meant family based. no one was doing anything for EB. compared to the massive relief offered to family based and undocumented- EB got 90,000/yr for 5 years
and that's half or les of the backlog.

[hmm]

I do not remember anything in CIR about EB backlogs. Anybody wants to bet on the issue? I could use some extra cash.

They did promise to clean some Family Based backlogs, but you know talk is cheap. They never said what would happen if they could not do it, and they never said how on earth they are going to do it.

So again, if you knowledge of CIR is based on pop media, it might be plain wrong.

[Legal Immi]

Now, you're backpedaling, Legal Immi. The 2007 Senate CIR bill would have been improved in the House and again in conference. Plus, the most onerous parts of CIR was the result of compromises with the Republicans. It was Sen. Kyl who wanted to switch family/employment based immigration with his immigration based system.

I am strictly talking about the legislative text as it was proposed and debated in Senate. I dont not have any information that it could have been improved in house. Please let me know if you have any information about the proposed changes in house for the failed CIR.

All along I said is Dems were just concerned about legalization part of the bill as long as they got what they wanted they did not care about anything else.

At least I know that Kyl and Sessions hate every immigrant whether legal or illegal. Dems used legal immigrants as bargaining chips to get Green cards(Z Visas) for undocumented people.

And the whole points system they agreed to was a total B.S

[KC]

>>>Now, you're backpedaling, Legal Immi<<<

He is not backpedaling.You and your cohorts REPEAT LIES and use that as a strategy for discussion in this board.
what a pity.

[Dream Act guy]

I meant to say Sen. Kyl's misguided merit based system.

[Dream Act guy]

Now, you're backpedaling, Legal Immi. The 2007 Senate CIR bill would have been improved in the House and again in conference. Plus, the most onerous parts of CIR was the result of compromises with the Republicans. It was Sen. Kyl who wanted to switch family/employment based immigration with his immigration based system.

[Legal Immi]

"Legal Immi, I hope you have fun in that long line you have to wait in. CIR would have guaranteed the elimination of EB backlogs, but I guess you like the status quo. While waiting, I hope you direct your misplaced anger and bitterness elsewhere."

I think you have completely misread the text and intent of the failed CIR. It would have worsened the things for EB folks. Instead of reducing the backlogs they reduced EB numbers.

I had high hopes on Dems when they took control of the Congress but they totally lost my respect with the text of the CIR as it was debated in Senate.

I dont like the status quo and the proposed solution was worse than the problem.

[Legal Immi]

"Legal Immi, I hope you have fun in that long line you have to wait in. CIR would have guaranteed the elimination of EB backlogs, but I guess you like the status quo. While waiting, I hope you direct your misplaced anger and bitterness elsewhere."

I think you have completely misread the text and intent of the failed CIR. It would have worsened the things for EB folks. Instead of reducing the backlogs they reduced EB numbers.

I had high hopes on Dems when they took control of the Congress but they totally lost my respect with the text of the CIR as it was debated in Senate.

I dont like the status quo and the proposed solution was worse than the problem.

[Legal Immi]

I am not sure why my posts appear here any more ..:)

[Legal Immi]

"Legal Immi, I hope you have fun in that long line you have to wait in. CIR would have guaranteed the elimination of EB backlogs, but I guess you like the status quo. While waiting, I hope you direct your misplaced anger and bitterness elsewhere."

I think you have completely misread the text and intent of the failed CIR. It would have worsened the things for EB folks. Instead of reducing the backlogs they reduced EB numbers.

I had high hopes on Dems when they took control of the Congress but they totally lost my respect with the text of the CIR as it was debated in Senate.

I dont like the status quo and the proposed solution was worse than the problem.

[legal-forever-waiting-forever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-MtK_rQ1zk

for those that argue that we should be petitioning govt for legal immigrants- here is something to think about.

[Dream Act guy]

Legal Immi, I hope you have fun in that long line you have to wait in. CIR would have guaranteed the elimination of EB backlogs, but I guess you like the status quo. While waiting, I hope you direct your misplaced anger and bitterness elsewhere.

[hmm]

l&w: I have just seen a 2 year 3 month name check delay that was tossed by the judge. If I am not mistaken, the attorney was one of Mr.Siskind's collegues in the firm, so shit happens and the battle far from over. I am curious if they intend to appeal; not many of these cases have gone to Courts of Appeals.

[USC]

"I think the GOP would be really happy if their loss would be limited to that seat only."

Very true. I think they are going to lose a lot more. If former Senator Kerrey runs for Hagel's seat that should be another pick-up. In addition the Dems should be able to pick-up other seats, some of which the article identifies.

With a bit of luck, if they get to 61 (to compensate for Byrd) we might get some meaningful immigration reform.

[Legal and waiting]

As the proverb goes - I will take my eye out, so that my mother-in-law has a one-eyed son-in-law. Better all be worse off than a few people better off than me.

[Another voice]

In the words of a bitter and un-wise Immigrant:

"Status quo is better than proposed and failed CIR which included "Dream Act". As far as lobbying for changes in the legislation Dems hate anything to do with legal immigrants and Reps hate all immigrants and on top of that for Dems who control the congress immigration means only crossing the border with out docs or overstaying the visa. These union folks think every legal immigrant is a job stealer."

Pretty much as long as he is paying everyone has to pay too, we sure need more folks like you here.

[Legal Immi]

"Legal immi, so, you would rather not "punish" the kids of the documented and go with status quo. Of course, that is a better option than to campaign for the children that age out to be included. There is of course nothing worse for those kids than to know that someone else got a better life, that just takes all happiness out of them... so cluel."

Status quo is better than proposed and failed CIR which included "Dream Act". As far as lobbying for changes in the legislation Dems hate anything to do with legal immigrants and Reps hate all immigrants and on top of that for Dems who control the congress immigration means only crossing the border with out docs or overstaying the visa. These union folks think every legal immigrant is a job stealer.

So campaigning for inclusion of something on behalf of legal immigrants is not going to work with Mr. Durbin or Kennedy.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, yes, suing is more resource-intensive. But unlike a Senator's request that impact just one individual, a successful lawsuit becomes a precedent and potentially impacts ALL comparable pending cases. As soon as it is known that over 2 years for adjustment is considered 'unreasonable' by the courts, CIS will move their behind and start pushing those cases. It has virtually the same impact as legislation.

[Dream Act guy]

Is this the blog post with the most comments? I think this is a new record.

[hmm]

l&w: suing takes much more valuable government resources. Motion to Dismiss and Judges Order are long and fairly complex documents. Trust me this is no comparison to the amount of effort a US Senator would put into this. So doing this through your representative would be so much better for the government.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, dont' get me wrong, but if I were stuck for 8 years, I would have started a movement with thousands of petitions for namecheck relief. I know you are a pretty fiesty individual, but I should admit, I am a real trouble-maker...

[Legal and waiting]

Immi, sorry for a bad comparison, but your theories on DREAM act is more like withholding life-saving medicine from a dying child because it would be less medicine for those the cold, and that's just so unfair...

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, I do agree with you, I think you SHOULD sue. Suing is the other way to work things out in this country - conservatives call it "legislating from the bench" ;-) So, no disagreement here.

[hmm]

l&w: btw, I would be interested to see whether you noble ideas about good for all would survive say a 4 year name check delay. What, 4 is not enough? How about 8, as happened to one guy from Palestine, who did go to court after all?

[Legal and waiting]

Legal immi, so, you would rather not "punish" the kids of the documented and go with status quo. Of course, that is a better option than to campaign for the children that age out to be included. There is of course nothing worse for those kids than to know that someone else got a better life, that just takes all happiness out of them... so cluel.

[hmm]

l&w: I am actually suing for name check delay. I hope eventually the Government realizes that paying US attorneys to fight those lawsuits is much more expensive than to improve the process (for ALL). I think, main part of the problem is that USCIS likes us where we are, paying for EAD and AP and keeping low profile. This is good business, nothing personal. It is rumored that USCIS only gives FBI something like $6 (six dollars) per name check; on the other hand, if your employer wants to run a name check on you, then for about $60, they can get the answer in a matter of weeks. Now I paid 5K to may lawyer, and I would gladly pay somewhat less money to the Government to speed up the process. This is not an option.

I think that judicial and congressional intervention is the only thing that can improve the USCIS; otherwise they are completely hopeless.

[Legal Immi]

"Legal immi, you did not answer my question. You don't have anything personally, yet you oppose the bill because it's "unfair". Fine. What do you think these young adults should do? What are their options? You know the immigration system well enough to run a few scenarios. Could you please do it."

I did not answer your questions because I dont have easy answers or I dont want to say I dont care because I am not such a person. I agree with you on everything you mentioned about the issues faced by these kids. Again I want to reiterate what is the mistake of documented kids and why they are discriminated why these lawmakers want to reward "kids of law breakers" at cost of "kids of people who played by the rules"

So what do you want me to tell my friends kid who is in the process of aging out being legal and has same issues as you mentioned.

I totally beleive kids are kids whether they are "legal" or "illegal". Why discriminate the legal kids? Isn't that good enough reason to call this bill unfair?

I am not even concerned about the work load on USCIS that is going to be caused because of this bill. We all know what happened with 245(i).

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, and by the way, when it "worked", expedited namecheck requests for a few skweaky wheels resulted in longer namechecks for everyone else. If anything, this alone would be justifiable enough for a Senator not to intervene on behalf of one person at the expense of someone else. I know it is not what you would like to hear, but the Senator is not just representing that particular person.

[Another voice]

"Could you kindly explain to me the economic benefit of legalization as opposed to status quo?"

1. Tax receipts could increase as a result of a regularized situation for these Immigrants
2. Home ownership and new buyers to the market help the housing slump
3. As baby boomers retire there are fresh contributors to the SS as less workers are working per every baby boomer that retires.
4. Travel Industry can benefit from Immigrants being able to travel to their countries that will bring more economic growth to those countries as the multiplier effect of every dollar spent there creates additional wealth effect.
5. Savings rates would increase as these immigrants make a stable life here they would keep more money here in the banks as they are able to open bank accounts.
6. Immigrants and their future generations attend college and elevate their standard of living of that sector of the population and benefit society as a whole.
7. There is nobody to take the place of these immigrants should they not be allowed to continue working in their fields. That would put pressure on the economy as labor markets are already tight and US is currently at full employment.
8. Population growth is going to negative numbers as in many industrialized nations immigrants being in younger workers and people that continue to move many industries and have children.
9. Immigrants children can educate themselves as opposed to now without dream act there are many young people that can not aspire to a better life and may increase criminal rates across america as young people with out hope and opportunity turn to organized crime as they become some sort of sub-society.

These are some benefits of helping Illegal Immigrants regularized their situation. I am sure there are plenty more.

[Calouste]

>> Dems 52 Pubs 48

>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20757160/

I think the GOP would be really happy if their loss would be limited to that seat only.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, I am sorry you have been stuck for so long, but realistically, you are one of 100,000 that are stuck over any reasonable period of time. It is impossible to resolve 100,000 cases by raising hell and screaming boody murder on an individual basis. When I am stuck for that long, I would be bothering everyone for sign petition for legislation that does not allow petitions to be stuck that long. Again, you are working with your elbows. I propose to work with our head so we resolve the issue for ALL.

[hmm]

l&w: okay I am waiting for name check for 2.5 years. What I do know is that Senator's requests used to help before last December when USCIS changed its policy on the issue. Some say it still helps is some States, as does writing to Mrs Bush for example. Now Senator would be actually doing nothing, there are his representatives who handle all the paperwork. This is completely routing matter, done daily (nothing creative like Senator calling the FBI in person, as if he's got nothing else to do). On the other hand, Senators should help people living in their districts as part of their job, and for some they even introduce private bills. Immigration attorneys like us to think that lawsuits is the only thing that might work but really there are more options. Perhaps after you wait another 2-3 years you shall start looking for other options..

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, the only way legalization will help the economy is because it would encourage upward mobility of the workforce and will make deportations impossible (or, at least, less common). From economic standpoint, there is no difference in what papers a person has; what job they have is all that matters. Legalization of itself is not going to be a huge deal. Dramatically increasing future legal immigration numbers - that would be a positive impact on the economy. And that is what I was talking about - if Senators believe that future immigration shuld be discouraged, we need to step up and tell them the opposite. When you say - it's either them or us, I say, no, there is enough space for all of us, and it is good for the economy.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, I have been stuck in namecheck for a year and a half, so what could I possibly know about namechecks... My friend was stuck for a year in naturalization, and he is a lawyer and two former US Senators work for his firm, and they could not help him, so could I possibly know about namecheck... There is no statutory limit to how long CIS can take to process an AOS application, and that is the most common reason the courts deny lawsuits on namechecks, so it is, of course, better for a Senator to waste his time on pulling for one out of 100,000 people, and instead of working on legislation that would make the government accountable for the length of time it takes. What do I know about namechecks? Apparently, you know something I don't know.

[hmm]

l&w: you are right economy is not my subject. Could you kindly explain to me the economic benefit of legalization as opposed to status quo? No need to talk about deporting 12M people, this would be pure fiction, let's look at realistic scenario. So again how does legalizing illegal immigrants would help the economy?

[hmm]

Okay, now that I looked at Kennedy's immigration voting record, it is mixed. He opposes great expansions of skilled worker program, but small fixes are fine for him. So maybe I was a bit wrong on him. But the name check person I talked to lives in Boston and she knows a lot about his opinions, so I trust her on this.

l&w: not sure how much you know on name check, probably a lot less than me, but senators used to be of great help. Some say this no longer works but the story I was referring to is more than one year old, when this did work.

If I remember right, Obama amendment was not part of CIR, but CIR did include some good things for name check. BTW, how many of you guys read CIR. I did, and to me it seems like many of you did not actually looked inside.

[Legal and waiting]

By the way, if you are interested in US history, here is a good summary:
http://www.sparknotes.com/history/american/depression/section3.rhtml

Immigration restrictions come to place in 1921, incredibly restrictive quotas enacted in 1924, immigration falls ten-fold, and by 1928 the ground for economic growth was pulled from under the US economy...

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, I never said it was obvious, I said there was a lot of economic research that supported that. It would be obvious if you take a few graduate classes in Economics.

Currently, illegals are around 5% of the labor force. If they are removed, at the very least, the GDP will drop by 5% (stock market will drop another 10%, many companies will go bankrupt, most will see earnings drop 10-15%). On top of being a substantial percentage of the population, immigrant workforce is concentrated in certain industries. Removing this workforce will cause very large shifts in labor structure for citizens/legals. Don't get me worng, those landscaping, agriculatural, construction, cleaning, restaurant jobs will be filled, and filled by citizens. In short, many citizens will lose their jobs, and they will have to downgrade their careers to take the jobs illegals used to have, or the jobs of those who take the jobs of illegals. So if someone made $15/hr as CSR, they will start making $10 in landscaping. Their CSR job will be taken by someone who used to make $20/hr as an accountant, and that accounting job will be taken by someone who was making $40/hr in sales. That's how the economy adjusts - the impact is multiplied across the economy, and unfortunately, everybody will start making lass money than they used to. Couple of Labor Economics classes, and you will better understand how it happens. If you need an example of what happens when population decreases, you may look at the 'rust belt' states that have been losing population and compare them in well being to states like California that have been gaining population - guess which ones fared better?

[TX]

Legal and waiting is right.....the CIR actually even had relief for the FBI name check victims. Remember the Obama amendment?

If not, it's still on this blog, Greg talked about it in May or June I think.

[TX]

Kennedy actually tried to increase the H1-B numbers by slipping in an amendment to the minimum wage act.

I will try to find the actual wordings and post it here. I know this because the IEEE was all over it when minimum wage was debated and called this out on Kennedy.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, Kennedy is legislator, and he his jobs is to come up with good laws, not waste his time on namechecks, especially if it does not help the applicants a single bit (and he knows it even better). All of his CIR proposals included generous relief for legal immigrants in general and EB immigrants in particular, and he should get lots of thanks from the immigrant community.

[hmm]

l&w: why is it obvious that "legalizing illegal immigrants is good for the economy"? This is far from obvious. One should surely do it on humanitarian grounds, but economy is hard to predict...

[Drew from Immigrants' List]

Hmm: Outside of the person you know, do you know of any article, etc., where Kennedy is quoted saying something similar? Just curious.

[Legal and waiting]

KC, when the Hispanic lobby rallied for lower legal immigration numebrs? I think you are either gravely misinformed, or just delusional.

[TX]

TX, he just does not know our history ;-)

Probably not :o)

It's amusing to see people like KC who can get so affected by people's responses that they have to respond multiple times and mention the person who ticked them off. This blog is quite entertaining ;)

[hmm]

Speaking of Kennedy. I have heard that on many occasions he refused to help legal immigrants saying explicitly that they already got too much and it is the illegal immigrants who need help (he may be right, who am I to judge..). For example, he refused to help expedite a name check for someone I know, and, he did not say he could not do it, he said he would not!

[KC]

>>>.Im going to support all pro-immigrant measures and oppose any non-immigrant ones. Some here are really bitter and selfish and thats really unfortunate<<<,

RATHER...

What IS unfortunate is the Hispanic and pro-illegal lobby firmly believing that they deserve special treatment at the EXPENSE of all other immigrants.

Here the critical phrase is "at the EXPENSE of other immigrants". If tomorrow US citizens led by Kennedy and Durbin decide to give fast track US Citizenship in one week to all the illegals, that's fine with us.

When you are looking at limited immigration numbers we are facing issues like this.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, any economist will give you a filing file size portfolio of research that proves immigration is good for the economy.

[hmm]

l&w: usually when people say "this is good for the country" they really mean "good for them personally". What makes you so sure more immigration is good for the country? One could argue equally well that preserving status quo is "good for the country", after all those illegal immigrants work hard and keep low profile, what could be better? I of course disagree, but then I disagree with so many things done by the government. I think realistically we got no chance; we cannot convince nobody...

[Legal and waiting]

TX, he just does not know our history ;-)

[Legal and waiting]

Legal immi, you did not answer my question. You don't have anything personally, yet you oppose the bill because it's "unfair". Fine. What do you think these young adults should do? What are their options? You know the immigration system well enough to run a few scenarios. Could you please do it.

[TX]

"Now I can safely say TX bug has firmly got hold of you"

Wow, I had no idea I was so popular.

[KC]

>>>>KC, first of all, Kennedy always welcomed relief for legal immigrants<<<<

Isn't it amazing people like you talk about charity and about having awareness about the plight of other people? You and TX would like others to believe you are walking embodiments of selflessness and people of higher morality!!!

This is the millionth time I'm posting in this web site that Kennedy has led the effort along with other dems to undermine any relief for employment based immigrants. Since you are not interested in truths you would like to say something meaningless like this quote above.

Kennedy is in favor of massive increase in visa numbers for illegal immigrants already here, Kennedy is in favor of massive boost in family based immigration. THAT'S ABOUT IT. END OF KENNEDY STORY. All because of ethnic vote bank politics, and lobbying.

[Legal and waiting]

grouchy, very few people want to emmigrate. There were 1 million people coming to US every year in the beginning of 20th centrury. There is 1 millioin coming in now - but the population of the country is 4 times larger. US immigration is actually very much down compared to historic highs. Only 2% of world population would like to emmigrate, and half of them are Americans who want to retire in Mexico (kidding, of course, but still the number is substantial). 2% of world's population is 120 million. Admitting 3-4 million immigrats every year would solve SS and Medicare crisis. There are less school-age children in the US today, then there were in the 1970s. To achieve the same population density in the US and in Britain (and remember, Britain still allows immigrants), US population should grow 10-fold to 3 billion - that's exactly half of the world!

What we are talking about here - 250,000 EB peittions? Guys, let's be realistic, this is drop in the bucket compared to what US needs every year to keep the econimy growing.

[Dream Act guy]

Im going to support all pro-immigrant measures and oppose any non-immigrant ones. Some here are really bitter and selfish and thats really unfortunate.

[Legal Immi]

"Please let us all know when you have a steak in an Immigration bill so we can call and supported since you are such charitable and decent human being. EVERYONE KEEP AN EYE ON THIS GUY WE MAY NEED OUR HELP."

All along I said is treat legal kids same way the undocumented ones. You can resort to name calling if you dont like my views. I never claimed that I am a charitable and decent human being. You can keep an eye on me and do whatever you can. When I have a "steak" in immigration bill I will let you know. BTW I like well done steaks.

[KC]

>>>>. Its for the advocates and proponents of the bill to include legal kids <<<<

I'm sorry to say this but you know that it is not going to happen. This is not pessimism or cynicism but reality staring at you.

[Drew from Immigrants' List]

Hmm: Estimates are that its roughly 65,000 illegal immigrants graduate from high school each year. Thats what the NILC & NIF list it as anyway. Assuming not all would then attend college or join the military though, but should give a ball park.

[Legal and waiting]

KC, first of all, Kennedy always welcomed relief for legal immigrants. Second, if you think Durbin is the biggest champion of DREAM act, think twice - he just needs something on his record that says he is not a heartless meanest person on the face of the Earth.

[Legal Immi]

Legal and waiting

Personally I dont have anything against these undocumented kids. All the questions you asked me about "undocumented" kids equally apply for "documented" kids. I also know that I am "legal" because I had an option.

As I said earlier I dont have energy to lobby for this bill in its current form as I have my own struggle with the system going on. Lobbying for an amendment is much harder compared to simply opposing the bill if I think its unfair at the end.

My only reason to oppose this bill would be if it ends up discriminating/punishing the "legal kids" . Its for the advocates and proponents of the bill to include legal kids in the bill so that they have more supporters.

[KC]

>>>>>spreading the message that more immigration is good for the country? Have you even considered that there could be a different approach? <<<<

Now I can safely say TX bug has firmly got hold of you.

Ever since EB retrogression started in 2005 all we have been doing is politely lobbying law makers to alleviate our concerns. Who are we to tell them that they should not give green cards to 15 year olds brought into this country as baies several years ago?

Dem Senators and congressmen led by Durbin and Kennedy who are heavily in favor of DREAM bill and other attempts to boost numbers for illegal immigrants have steadfastly opposed any relief to EB immigrants. WHY?

Vote bank politics, huge ethnic lobby power. No room for justice , fair play.... all thrown out.

[Another voice]

"I personally dont have any stake in the Dream act bill so I dont have energy to make calls to congress, I may end up opposing this bill if Congress does not give a fair shake to legal kids. I may end up opposing this bill as I did for last CIR."

Please let us all know when you have a steak in an Immigration bill so we can call and supported since you are such charitable and decent human being. EVERYONE KEEP AN EYE ON THIS GUY WE MAY NEED OUR HELP.

[grouchy]

Let us be more mature. The rule of the law is constantly changing and the population of the world is constantly growing, since eveybody in the world tends to have an american dream then America can't afford to do something. Goodluck all folks!

[Legal and waiting]

KC, yeah, of course, now I don't deserve to be EB immigrant. That's not name calling.

[TX]

"All I am saying is we should have senators supportive of EB immigrants like Senator Cornyn should use this issue as a negotiating tool with the likes of Durbin and Kennedy. Sen Cornyn and other senators symathyzing with EB immigrants should filibuster DREAM bill until and unless Durbin & co agree to clear up th EB mess."

That actually is a good idea, why did'nt you say that before? No one is trying to be superior here.

I will actually write Senator Cornyn and ask him to support Dream Act and include with it his SKIL bill.

[Legal and waiting]

hmm, maybe instead of working our elbows and fighting among ourselves over who is 'deservier' to be here, we should work on spreading the message that more immigration is good for the country? Have you even considered that there could be a different approach?

[KC]

>>>The consequence, of course, is that all you got is shot other people's dream, and that's all mean bitter people like you get. Nobody is going to rally for you, because you are too proud to rally for them<<<<

More name calling...more patronization...more lecturing and attempted moral superiority. TX bug is catching you.

So all we care about and we are all worried that some 15 year olds are going to get green card??!!!

Are you really employment based legal immigrant? If so your naiveté is amusing. If you "rally" for this Durbin will listen to you?

All I am saying is we should have senators supportive of EB immigrants like Senator Cornyn should use this issue as a negotiating tool with the likes of Durbin and Kennedy. Sen Cornyn and other senators symathyzing with EB immigrants should filibuster DREAM bill until and unless Durbin & co agree to clear up th EB mess.

[Legal and waiting]

Legal Immi, may I ask you a question - what would you personally do if you were an illegal student, who grew up in poverty, worked your behind to get good grades, then worked your behind twice as hard to get private college scolarships - now you enter senior year in college, and you know that you have no right to work after you graduate, and if you leave the country you will barred from entering for 10 years (and would have little chance of entering afterwards because of your history of living illegally in the country). All of your friends and most of your relatives are in the US. What would you do? You can't apply for immigration to Canada, because you are illegal. Would you look for a job in your home country (you may not speak the language very well, and would have no connections)? Would you exit the US and not see your parents for the next 10 years? Honestly, what would you do?