AND NOW FOR THE OTHER BIG NEWS - H-1B FILING FEE INCREASED TO $3000 IN SENATE BILL

It's baaack...

The Senate passed by a voice vote (that means it was unanimous) a measure to double the $1500 H-1B tariff to $3000. Was an increase in the H-1B cap included as part of the deal? What do you think? Here's the language of SA 3396, introduced by not-pro-business Chuck Grassley (R-IA) and Bernie Sanders, the socialist (he really is - that's not an insult) Vermont Senator.

Expect a fight on this when the bill gets to the House. Any massive tax increase associated with H-1Bs should only be accompanied by abolishing the anti-competitive H-1B cap all together.

Comments

[Sid]

"No, he establishes a priority for adding to US workforce - people who grew up in this country first, those who want to obtain a new H1 - second."

Then he should get rid of both legals and illegals and give a chance to US citizens first. I'm sure they deserve scholarships in their own country more than immigrants.

It would have been nice if the DREAM kids had been added to the front of the EB1 & EB2 ROW queues. Your big mouth would opened wider in protest.

[Sid]

"In exchange for support for DREAM act, he proposed to support increase in H1 visas and/or SKIL bill. If you re-read his statement carefully, you will see what he implies (the statement is directed at Republicans who want to stonsor their immigration related legislation)."

Then he is playing dirty and is not really in favor of supporting the EB reforms. Support for a cause like this cannot be conditional. Either you support it or you don't. This is the kind of blackmailing that happened since the CIR was introduced.

[Legal and waiting]

"Do you realize that you're essentially saying that illegals belong to this country while legals don't?"

No, he establishes a priority for adding to US workforce - people who grew up in this country first, those who want to obtain a new H1 - second.

[Legal and waiting]

"What is the win-win he proposed?"

In exchange for support for DREAM act, he proposed to support increase in H1 visas and/or SKIL bill. If you re-read his statement carefully, you will see what he implies (the statement is directed at Republicans who want to stonsor their immigration related legislation).

[Sid]

"They are not evil, but this country needs to take care of their own before deciding how many additional they need. "

Do you realize that you're essentially saying that illegals belong to this country while legals don't?

[H1B]

"I agree with him, because he proposes a win-win"

What is the win-win he proposed?

[Legal and waiting]

"Mr Durbin dont tell me that H1b visa holders are evil compared to the people whom you are supporting to for immidiate residency. I have same dreams as others do. "

They are not evil, but this country needs to take care of their own before deciding how many additional they need. I agree with him, because he proposes a win-win, but apparently, some would rather suffer themselves in order not to see other immigrants get a break.

[H1B]

"Don't turn around and tell me tomorrow you need H-1B immigration visas to bring in talented people to America because we don't have enough," Durbin said. "Don't take your anger on illegal immigration out on children who have nothing to say about this. They were brought to this country. . . . They've beaten the odds. We need them."

Mr. Durbin is so sure about the talent of the people he is planning to legalize why doesnt he put a bar little higher i.e. Graduation from college as opposed to completing 2 years in college? I think six years is good enough to complete the college graduation, In cases where people need more time (Like Med school or dental school ) there are anyway provisions to file for extenstion of legal status in the proposed legislation.

Mr. Durbin has to realise that H1B visas are for immediate shortage in some professions. H1Bs are used to employ people in jobs which require various levels of expertise and educational qualifications.

I am not sure how many of dream act benificiaries are ready to be employed in H1B occupations as of yesterday. Businesses cant keep waiting for these dream act benificiaries to be graduated from college to fill in jobs that they have open.

Mr Durbin dont tell me that H1b visa holders are evil compared to the people whom you are supporting to for immidiate residency. I have same dreams as others do.

[A H(uman)1B(eing)]

Topic of H1B fees increase has been Hijacked for DREAM act discussions. What does DREAM act have to do with H1Bs? The two issues are as disparate as Christmas and Ramadan!

A quick reality check -

a) Most H1Bs DO NOT have any ill feelings towards other categories of Immigrants including undocumented as well as DREAM Act beneficiaries. There are exceptions, but they aren't the majority.
b) Most of the perceived ill feelings are the result of actions of champions of legalization like Durbin, who are also hellbent on making life hell for H1Bs and EB immigrants. If Mr. Durbin wasn't stopping every measure to help EB Immigrants, level of support for legalization among EB Immigrants would be MUCH HIGHER than now.
c) H1B immigrants will never be able to support legalization measures as long champions of 'undocumented' keep hurting them with additional 'head taxes' like the current proposed increase in net H1B to $6000 etc.
d) Undocumented /DREAM Act beneficiaries need to talk to their champions to include the concerns of H1B immigrants into their bills. It will naturally increase support for their cause, increase web faxes, letters , E-mails etc. to legalization measures.
e) Will undocumented/DREAM Act guys support a measure that increases EB immigrant pool to 300,000 , but also makes E-verify compulsory for every employee? Ditto for H1Bs. It's naive to expect them to help your cause - when their very existence in US is threatened ( by increasing fees to unreasonable levels)
f) Give and take works both ways. Don't expect it to run in one direction!

[C R]

"Secondly, it is conditional residency with strings attached, one that LPR's dont have to deal with."

What are the so called strings?

"Thirdly, the parental sponsorship argument is moot because to qualify, the undocumented parent has to leave the country triggering the 10 year ban"

The moment these kids are legalized and in the military they would be demanding for special exemptions for their parents.

[C R]

"Conditional residency, its a bill not a law. "

Agree its a bill. Thank God it did not pass first step in becoming law.

[Dream Act guy]

Conditional residency, its a bill not a law.

Secondly, it is conditional residency with strings attached, one that LPR's dont have to deal with.

Thirdly, the parental sponsorship argument is moot because to qualify, the undocumented parent has to leave the country triggering the 10 year ban.

[Conditional residency]

People keep saying that it is conditional residency but it is not , this is what law says

"(e) Treatment of Period for Purposes of Naturalization- For purposes of title III of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1401 et seq.), in the case of an alien who is in the United States as a lawful permanent resident on a conditional basis under this section, the alien shall be considered to have been admitted as an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence and to be in the United States as an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence. However, the conditional basis must be removed before the alien may apply for naturalization.
"

For any other immigrant pending permanent residency application time is not counted towards naturalization. Infact what this law does is granting the permanent residency on the day application is filed.

As far as the bars on admissions are concerned people are assuming that same law stays on the books by time these benificiaries are ready to sponser.

[Dream Act guy]

Also, Dream Act kids cannot sponsor anybody during the 6 year conditional residency period. Once they become citizens, they can sponsor their parents and then the issues I described would apply.

[Dream Act guy]

Once again, please read up on the Dream Act.

Technically, Dream Act kids can sponsor their parents for permanent residency. However, these undocumented parents would have to leave the country to adjust their status. The ten year ban would then apply.

LPRs are not allowed to sponser parents and siblings according to

http://www.visalaw.com/04sep3/2sep304.html

[Sid]

"Both permanent resident and citizens can sponsor their parents."

Not according to the information available on the visa bulletins.

"I though LPRs could not sponsor parents, brothers/sisters to live permanently in the US"

As far as I know LPRs can sponser spouse and kids.

[r2i]

Hang on. I though LPRs could not sponsor parents, brothers/sisters to live permanently in the US. Can you confirm this? Now, would their parents, whether they over-stayed their visa or illegally crossed the border be deemed inadmissable?

[Legal and waiting]

Both permanent resident and citizens can sponsor their parents. There is some wait for LPRs, but being a citizen is not essential. The main thing is tha in either case they may not sponsor parents if parents are inadmissible.

"When these kids become naturalized can they sponsor their parents for green cards?"

Yes they can.

[r2i]

When these kids become naturalized can they sponsor their parents for green cards? A big reason to fast track citizenship I would say.

"You can start by asking for a lot or asking for very little. Either way, you'll get what people who are in power are prepared to give you. This holds true for all immigrants who are pushing for reforms - legal or illegal."

And forgot to add one more thing why less than 16 year old when they had arrived? why not less than 18 year old when they arrived?

[Sid]

"I dont think this bill goes far enough, This bill requires physical presence of 5 years. What is the mistake of kids are present in this country for less than 5 years. I think all the kids who are brought by their parents and who want to goto college should be given permanent residency immediately."

You can start by asking for a lot or asking for very little. Either way, you'll get what people who are in power are prepared to give you. This holds true for all immigrants who are pushing for reforms - legal or illegal.

I dont think this bill goes far enough, This bill requires physical presence of 5 years. What is the mistake of kids are present in this country for less than 5 years. I think all the kids who are brought by their parents and who want to goto college should be given permanent residency immediately.

[Legal and waiting]

a, you make no sense. You say you have no problem with them being legalized, and then you turn around and say you don't know what policies they will vote for, so you want them to be behind in some queue, so that they get their citizenship later.

First, if you think they deserve to live here, and if they deserve to be legalized, then does not it mean they deserve to decide what happens to the country they grew up in and plan to live for the rest of their life ASAP?

Second, somehow you imply that if they are stuck in some queue "like other people", they will end up voting differently... Or did I get you wrong, and you implied that you would like to use that queue time to decide if you'd like to keep them from ever becoming citizens because you are not going to like what they want to vote? Makes no sense again.

Then you of course accuse of of belittling citizenship when I clearly stated that voting rights is one of a few things they will pick up at naturalization compared to their green card/temporary status.

[a]

"I don't get it - why do you even care when they become voters? Realy - why?That's pretty much the only right they are going to pick up when they naturalize"

Isn't voting the most important duty/right/privilege a citizen will have in a democracy. I care because non one knows how many millions will become voters because of this law and what kind of policies they would be advocating for once they become citizens with voting rights. Please dont belittle the citizenship.

"Why do you want to put these people, who deserve to live here, in the back of some stupid queue. Just because you are yourself stuck in it? Is tha the only reason? You would feel crappy if someone else gets out of the queue? Can't you be glad for others?"

"who deserve to be here" , thats may be how you feel but the law on the books says otherwise. Having said that laws can be changed anytime by congress. I am not struck in any queues as you may think.

[Legal and waiting]

a, first, as I said I have no problem with the other kids being treated the same way. So, there is no preferential treatment.

I don't get it - why do you even care when they become voters? Realy - why? That's pretty much the only right they are going to pick up when they naturalize. Why do you want to put these people, who deserve to live here, in the back of some stupid queue. Just because you are yourself stuck in it? Is tha the only reason? You would feel crappy if someone else gets out of the queue? Can't you be glad for others?

[a]

"The question is - do these kids deserve to live legally in the US? If the answer is yes, than yes, they should be on a fast track. I see no problem with that."

Living "legally" does not necessarily mean faster track citizenship. Why cant these kids be "legalized" and get behind the queue?

"a, why do we have to compare them to "many situations". There are Philipino siblings of citizens who are waiting for 25 years to apply for a green card - does that mean that everyone should be waiting for 25 years, that what you mean?"

I am not saying everyone should wait 25 years, why these kids should be treated special when other are waiting patiently. Isn't this a preferntial treatment?

[Legal and waiting]

a, why do we have to compare them to "many situations". There are Philipino siblings of citizens who are waiting for 25 years to apply for a green card - does that mean that everyone should be waiting for 25 years, that what you mean?

The question is - do these kids deserve to live legally in the US? If the answer is yes, than yes, they should be on a fast track. I see no problem with that.

[a]

"I don't think so. Even if the years count, one must be uncondidtional green card holder to apply for naturalization. Add processing time, and you will have 1 year for processing + 6 years in conditional status + 1 year to get real green card + 1 year for naturalization. Again, 9 years is not really a "fast track"."

It may not be "Fast Track" but it is faster track compared to many situations.

[Lou Dobbs]

"This is my last post directed to you I am just going to ignore you like everyone else."

i dont give a hoot if you ignore me or not.. Go on with ur rant pal ...

[Legal and waiting]

"That means a benificiary under proposed dream act can apply for naturalization just after 5 years in conditional residency."

I don't think so. Even if the years count, one must be uncondidtional green card holder to apply for naturalization. Add processing time, and you will have 1 year for processing + 6 years in conditional status + 1 year to get real green card + 1 year for naturalization. Again, 9 years is not really a "fast track".

Plus, the practice of arbitrary fast track to citizenship is already in the law - if a Cuban and a Mexican jump over the border, one will be on fast track to citizenship, while the other in the whole indefinitely. Nobody thinks this is not right.

"No where in the law says what kind of documets are needed to prove the physical presence. "

Did you read the bill? It says there that they should be physically present. The list of supporting documents is defined by the USCIS regulations, not by the law.

"If some family is admissible or not depends on the paper trail if it is available with agencies. In most of the cases paper trail is not present."

So, assume their parents go back to Mexico, and there is no paper trail. They would have to wait for 9 years until their DREAM act kids become citizens to apply for green cards. Again, argueing that the family will be able to immigrate "immediately" is dubious at best.

[Another voice]

"Lastly, the fraud part is ridiculous. Since these people went to school and to the military, there is huge paper trail. It is not easy to falsify school records to the point they can be officialy confirmed."

In addition to that why waste good minds that want to go to school or serve in the military. The contribution to the country in the short term would be huge!!

[a]

"First, the claim of 'fast track' to citizenship is false, since it would take at least 11 years."

It is true because the years in "Conditional residency" status are counted towards years need towards naturalization. That means a benificiary under proposed dream act can apply for naturalization just after 5 years in conditional residency.

"It is not easy to falsify school records to the point they can be officialy confirmed."

No where in the law says what kind of documets are needed to prove the physical presence.

"that of course assumes that their family is admissible, which is unlikely."

If some family is admissible or not depends on the paper trail if it is available with agencies. In most of the cases paper trail is not present.

[Another voice]

"Ohh Boy ...

u called me an idiot ??? I never resort to name calling .."

If the shoe fits...........you do not much resort to anything. This is my last post directed to you I am just going to ignore you like everyone else.

[Legal and waiting]

I read the White House rebuke, and it looked lopsided to me. First, the claim of 'fast track' to citizenship is false, since it would take at least 11 years. Faster than legal kids? Maybe, maybe not. Is that a good idea to extend the benefits to legal kids - absolutely.

Second, their claim about the beneficiaries being able to bring their family immediately appears to be totally false. Family backlogs are staggering, and 15-20 years does not qualify as 'immediate' in my mind - that of course assumes that their family is admissible, which is unlikely.

Lastly, the fraud part is ridiculous. Since these people went to school and to the military, there is huge paper trail. It is not easy to falsify school records to the point they can be officialy confirmed.

[L]

I am not quite sure how the people who wrote the law came up with max age of 30 to be eligible for dream act benifits. They should have put the maximum age of 35 or 36 to cover the all kids who were less than 16 year old and brought by their parents just after 1986 immigration reform legislation.

"Just include kids who are about to start college and everyone will agree." and who have completed college too

[Sid]

john, I don't think it was a stupid move. You obviously try to get as much as you can the first time and then scale down your demands to a level where they can be met.
There is no reason why a scaled down version of this bill should not pass. Just include kids who are about to start college and everyone will agree.

[john]

I think whitehouse memo is pretty decent.It does gives some clue on how to improve the dead bill. whoever wrote this bill would have anticipated this. stupid people .just throwing most ambitious version first....

[Greg Siskind]

Just me - I think you're right that a scaled back DREAM Act is probably in the works. The White House statement certainly seems to be trying to provide suggestions on trouble spots. They didn't have a per se problem with passing a bill. I could see a DREAM-lite bill with less generous provisions coming up soon.

[Lou Dobbs]

and for all the nutcases here who think I am L&W fan. I am after her (not always ,sometimes when she act like a bully) only to bring it to her notice that what a hypocrite she is ...

and for the record ,if anybody cares, I support DREAM act fully with or without legals.

[Legal and waiting]

worldEB, the truth is that regular Americans don't really make big deal out of differences between legal and illegal immigration. If you hear someone claiming 'I am all for legal immigration, but illegal is illegal' - try to get to what their position really is - in 90% of cases you get an hard-core anti, who is in fact, against all immigration. Tancredo is case in point - he usually goes to naturalization ceremonies and congratulates people on becoming Americans and praises them for doing it the right way (half the people naturalizing, of course, got their green cards in 1986 amnesty).

So, I don't think that starting from relief to illegal immigration is the wrong way to go. I think, Democrats wanted to get the ball rolling starting from a category of very deserving people who are in the most horrible circumstances to no fault of their own, and truly deserve to get some relief - most outrageous and urgent cases first. If that does not work - well, nothing would really work. Plus, Durbin is some sort of a ranking member, and he has lots of influence.

[just me]

Info from my sources:

There never were 60 votes. They had a choice- negotiate or try it out. Chose not to allow any changes/amendments. Reid and Durbin did however seek allies- even among skilled groups. Don't know what's going on now but there may be a belated attempt to compromise. It's not over till the fat lady sings.
If it does not pass the Dems may block everything else as well.
So whichever 'side' you are on, root for DREAM.

[Lou Dobbs]

Another Voice

Ohh Boy ...

u called me an idiot ??? I never resort to name calling ..
But anyways Lou Dobbs used to this ... chill out pal ... I thought only L&W usually the one who starts the name calling here on this blog...

[worldEB]

guys,
this was wrongly executed plan. It is ofcourse sad to hear dream act failed. I am sure this will come up again and will pass. there are some lessons to be learned out of this.

1.Legal are not enemies of illegals, but this smart move to go ahead of legal is wrong. you really dont stand a chance if people cant accept legals. first create a climate to accept a legal immigrant.Belive me then ofcourse they will accept an illegal immigrant.
2.most republicans stood well against your bill. show your support so that they won't show up again there after the election. democrats are very keen to move illegal immigrant bills.
3.most importantly you got that many votes. It is very encouraging. There is a room for a quick turn around.YOu really dont have to say this is end for anyone.the climate looks good for both illegals and legals.

"No name, well, where do you think these kids are going to get money to pay for college"

I Personally think there should universal free college education for all of the people who want to goto college. All the federal student loans should be forgiven by the federal government. If there are people who paid off their student loans it should be returned back by government. When students from below poverty line families attend college they should be encouraged by giving a scholorship that is consistent with the salary of average college graduate so that they are encouraged to continue their college education.

[Another voice]

This idiot keeps getting his behind handed to him by L&W on any and all arguments yet the stupid comments keep coming I think you are her fan. Nothing wrong with that you are talking about a smart individual hopefully you have the IQ to understand what L&W is saying.

Lou Dobbs
"Just me

Take it easy about L&W .She lives in her own world. Nothing worng in it but she is bit belliigerent in her arguments and she trounces everybody who opposes her way of thinking.

Just chill out here..."

[just me]

hopefully they are negotiating something.
i don't think DREAM is a perfect bill and i have some concerns over it but overall at this time it's better for us all that it passes. anyway these kids need a break, looks like we all agree on that. since iv was needlessly brought up i made a call and checked some forum stuff, looks like they are rooting for it to pass too. wonder what's happening behind the scenes today...any flies on the wall? :-)

"What makes it really disgusting is that one the one hand you have the World's only hyper-power and on the other hand you the enticee, an 18 year old high school kid!"

This applies for citizen kids too... There are kids who want to get out of home once they are 18yo for whatever reason.

[USC]

"I agree with that"

What makes it really disgusting is that one the one hand you have the World's only hyper-power and on the other hand you the enticee, an 18 year old high school kid!

"USC, yet, there are easier ways to spare the kids from being encouraged to join the military than killing the bill."

Notwithstanding my earlier comments I was in support of the DREAM bill because it was the only relief on the table. However, it is super patriots like Tancedro who should be the canon-fodder not innocent 18 year olds.

[Legal and waiting]

No name, well, where do you think these kids are going to get money to pay for college? A lot of Americans who can't afford college (and by the way, they are eligible for in-state tuition and all sorts of grants and loans) are going into the military because it would eventually pay for college education. So even though I do not like the fact that this bill encourages young people to join the military beyond what I would consider reasonable, the military option as a way to get to college is still a popular, and thus fair, way.

Link to whitehouse statement on dream act

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/sap/110-1/s2205sap-s.pdf

[Dream Act guy]

TX, I don't think there's a way to get around the 10 year ban.

As for me, I do have 245(i), and I can try the EB 2 category in a couple of years. Its just that I should have been legalized under my dad (who is legal), but our lawyer didn't file the necessary papers in time.

I do hope the Republicans suffer in 08. They are letting a small but loud minority dictate their positions.

[TX]

This from Sessions on the Senate floor, on the Dream Act:

"This would be the wrong direction," added Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala. "This would be to signal that once again we're focused on rewarding illegality rather than taking the steps necessary to create a lawful system."

According to him, the steps neceassry to create a lawful system would be to halt any and all types of immigration to this country. I can't wait to see the day when this Senator is defeated.

"Yes. I find it morally repugnant to entice someone with a GC to fight our "invasion." "

I agree with that , Sen. Durbin is one of the few senators to vote against use of force resolution but he is also architect of the dream act bill. Is this hypocrosy of first order?

[Legal and waiting]

USC, yet, there are easier ways to spare the kids from being encouraged to join the military than killing the bill. The provision can be taken out with out a huge detriment to the bill.

[Legal and waiting]

Lou, I did suspect that I was an object of your affection for quite some time, but I never understood the depth of the malady. Thanks for clarifying.

[USC]

"Then I'm glad that these kids were spared from being lambs to the slaughter. More than anything else, I'm opposed to this stupid war "of" terror."

Yes. I find it morally repugnant to entice someone with a GC to fight our "invasion."

[Lou Dobbs]

Just me

Take it easy about L&W .She lives in her own world. Nothing worng in it but she is bit belliigerent in her arguments and she trounces everybody who opposes her way of thinking.

Just chill out here...

[Sid]

"This bill would have helped army in meeting its recruitment goals too , Going by what three leading democrats presidential nomination contenders said about troop withdrawls by end of their first term."

Then I'm glad that these kids were spared from being lambs to the slaughter. More than anything else, I'm opposed to this stupid war "of" terror.

This bill would have helped army in meeting its recruitment goals too , Going by what three leading democrats presidential nomination contenders said about troop withdrawls by end of their first term.

"Many Dream Act kids can't adjust their status through the employment category because to do so, would mean that Dream Act kids would have to leave the country. If they leave the country, the 10 year ban would apply."

I was thinking of a limited 245(i) like rule that applies to DREAM Act kids. Something that would let people apply for H1B and a labor certification.

[TX]

Dream Act Guy.....do you know of any efforts to try to eliminate this 10 year ban? I can't believe that Bill Clinton actually made this stupid bill into law where you have to stay out of the country for 10 years before applying. If nothing else, some of these kids could get labor certification and apply that way. I hope some kind of relief comes through for them. Like I said, republicans are asking for defeat, and they will get what they asked for in 08, in big numbers.

[Dream Act guy]

Thanks TX for the nice pep talk.

I would like to clear up a misconception. Many Dream Act kids can't adjust their status through the employment category because to do so, would mean that Dream Act kids would have to leave the country. If they leave the country, the 10 year ban would apply. There is no preferential treatment in the Dream Act, and please read up on it. It really was and is a good bill.

[just me]

i was not interested in you in theleast.
i made a simple comment about another voice and his derogatory comments
you made me into some very selfish anti immigrant for that. that got me interested all right :-)

so think before posting...read too...it helps.

[Lou Dobbs]

"but since I have no personal gain in its agenda"

I thought u r selfless .. ohh there is a catch in it .. you want to run it according to ur wishes ( does is not cover under selflessness ?) ..

And he wants to win friends with this kind of statements

"No name, you need to understand that illegals will get their way, sooner or later (and rather sooner). They have tons of money for the cause and 40 million Hispanic citizen votes. If legals continue to give them bad rap, they are going to get nothing, just like you illustrated. Keep on the good work, you are on the right path to nowhere"

[TX]

unnamed....do you not get politics? If Durbin has anything to gain from this it's probably got to do with getting more votes for his party, if he does'nt get his way, he will block relief for H1 and EB. Republicans who favor H1 and EB favor it for those exact same reason, to get votes from the the big businesses, so if Durbin does'nt get his votes, he will make sure republicans don't get theirs. I don't agree with all these polictics, but you have to smart and realize that everything is political, that is why if the Democrat majority does not get it's way, the Republican minorty will not either. It's just the way things work. EB and H1 people have to understand this, I don't understand why they do not, supposedly us EB's are the brightest of the bunch, yet we do not get that failure of one immigration bill leads to a failure of another.

[Legal and waiting]

just me, and you seem to be a little too interested in me personally that I am comfortable with. Relax, have a lunch break, come back in better spirits :-)

[just me]

and unfortunately, it does not stop at EB3 India. Apparently, such a position is not welcome at IV.

i begin to get it, and the bitterness.
it's not about EB3 india- you probably went all out on illegals there. intelligent people know how to address things and where and when to do it best. maybe you are not as smart as i thought. your posts though are showing it too. they are like a petulant 2 year old kid.

[just me]

And by "WE" you mean IV? Yes, your power manifests itself every day in Congress...

no i meant all the people here that another voice is putting together in the "how do you sleep" camp and the ones that allegedly derailed this bill. what is with you anyway? and what does this have to do with iv? you seem intelligent and then you say the most inane things. please try keeping some perspective. and the "we" was in quotes...did you happen to notice? there was mostly sarcasm there. you seem to have your own grouses though and bitterness. maybe another voice can help you out. you'll sleep better. :-)

[Lou Dobbs]

L&W wrote " Feel free to hate me "

That was my quotation. You cannot copy it.

I am the great Lou Dobbs. U are competing with me now

[Legal and waiting]

Yes, rti, you guessed right, I am EB2 ROW. Hate me now?

I wanted to help IV, but since I have no personal gain in its agenda, the only reason I would join is because I embrace all immigrants, and unfortunately, it does not stop at EB3 India. Apparently, such a position is not welcome at IV.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm all for H1B visas, without caps. However, I do see Durbin's point. Here we have thousands of kids that are bright and can be an asset to this economy, yet, we don't want them to amount to anything? This is what I meant when I said earlier, that a defeat for the DREAM act would be a major defeat to any and all immigration bills, Durbin just proved my point."

Sorry this does not compute. If Dick really believes these kids can do H1B jobs, he always has the option of plugging for special H1B visas that are reserved for these kids. So its clear he's asking for special treatment over and above for his vested interest and using it to threaten H1B or EB relief. Nice.

"I do see Durbin's point. Here we have thousands of kids that are bright and can be an asset to this economy"

In that case he should have started with a narrow bill that would have legalized the people who came here as kids and earned their degrees in STEM professions. I would ask him to come with statistics on how many such kids are present and how many are pursuing degrees in STEM majors.

"If we do not give these children a chance . Don't tell me tomorrow that we would need additional workers on H1B . We need to gove these children a chance to solve the labour problems.

Dick Durbin on Senate floor...."

Hey Dick... why not increase the H1B cap and reserve it for these kids? No one would have an objection to that.

[TX]

"If we do not give these children a chance . Don't tell me tomorrow that we would need additional workers on H1B . We need to gove these children a chance to solve the labour problems."

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for H1B visas, without caps. However, I do see Durbin's point. Here we have thousands of kids that are bright and can be an asset to this economy, yet, we don't want them to amount to anything? This is what I meant when I said earlier, that a defeat for the DREAM act would be a major defeat to any and all immigration bills, Durbin just proved my point.

"No name, you need to understand that illegals will get their way, sooner or later (and rather sooner). They have tons of money for the cause and 40 million Hispanic citizen votes. If legals continue to give them bad rap, they are going to get nothing, just like you illustrated. Keep on the good work, you are on the right path to nowhere."

Wow no wonder some citizens have fears of being taken over. By looking at these kinds of statements looks like their fears have some credence.

[Legal and waiting]

Feel free to hate me, but I think Dick's got his priorities right. There is absolutely no excuse not to give these children a chance to contribute to the country where they grew up.

[Another voice]

"If we do not give these children a chance . Don't tell me tomorrow that we would need additional workers on H1B . We need to gove these children a chance to solve the labour problems.

Dick Durbin on Senate floor...."

This just shows that help for Legals and Illegals go hand and hand for all the poeple that thought this was going to get in their way.

Anyway seems like a done deal we got to move on the Election 2008 if we want to change some of these votes.

[rti]

Legal and Waiting, what is your point about IV? With an attitude like yours you are obviously NOT from a retrogressed country or category and will soon pass out of this system. You obviously do not watch the bulletin every week to see the state of people in EB3 India for example.

[Another voice]

"How else can you explian a guy like Vitter who is so immoral, yet talks about how are immigration laws were broken by these kids. This guy needs to be defeated at any cost."

I know this guy is ridiculous he is against the kids on DREAM but all for prostitutes on DC. You what to love his morality stands!!

[Quote of the day]

If we do not give these children a chance . Don't tell me tomorrow that we would need additional workers on H1B . We need to gove these children a chance to solve the labour problems.

Dick Durbin on Senate floor....

[Another voice]

Sorry about the misspelling I wrote this really fast.

[Another voice]

"Well I can't get on the site for some reason. So are they going to reconsider the bill for later? I heard that the actual cloture vote failed itself."

They said right after the vote Reid took the floor and said that him and McConnell had reached an agreement on amotion to reconsider. What tha menas not sure but they have moived on to other matter for now. I'll be checking I think they said 3 or so. I'll keep everyone posted.

This is the link where I am watching.

http://www.c-span.org/watch/

[Legal and waiting]

And by "WE" you mean IV? Yes, your power manifests itself every day in Congress...

[TX]

Dream Act Guy.....hang in there, this will pass sooner or later. These Republicans are asking for a defeat by defeating common sense legislation. If it's not hate that drives these votes then I don't know what is. All you anti's have to admit that there's some hate involved. How else can you explian a guy like Vitter who is so immoral, yet talks about how are immigration laws were broken by these kids. This guy needs to be defeated at any cost.

[USC]

"USC, do you know who are the undeided Senators?"

LW, sorry I didn't see your post in time (I am in New Delhi) to respond but I see from some of the sites that the DREAM has died 52 to 44. 52 is a mojority but we needed 60.

[just me]

yes we sleep well thank you. especially given "we" are all powerful. you on the other hand need meds my friend. please calm down. it's just a forum.

[TX]

Well I can't get on the site for some reason. So are they going to reconsider the bill for later? I heard that the actual cloture vote failed itself.

[Another voice]

"Don't blame the legal immigrants. We haven't lobbied against the DREAM act. Our numbers are too small to influence these decisions."

Ohh what evere helps you sleep at night man!!!!

[Dream Act guy]

Dream Act did not get cloture. The vote was 52-44 with 60 votes needed. I would like to thank the people here who supported the bill.

[just me]

-just me, no, you are talking 'my way or highway', you are the one not willing to support ANY immigration relief to ANY immigrant groups, unless the law benefits YOU PESONALLY. The arguments on your side are simply excuses. You do not recognize any other hardship than your personal.

interesting. and proves my point. i have not expressed any opinion on this issue. but i'm condemned and executed. i'm selfish, i do not support anything, i have a side etc etc. in a nutshell i'm bad because i dare speak up about "your side's" attitude. wow! please take some deep breaths. you need them.

[Another voice]

Another voice....are you watching CSPAN2?" yeah on the webcast

[Another voice]

People can watch the LIVE debate on C-Span on the web. Its over for now but like I said they are reconsidering it for later on today. But seems like the antis just delivered another defeat to Immigration Reform of any kind.

[TX]

Another voice....are you watching CSPAN2?

[Sid]

"I think the DREAM act cloture vote failed. Thanks all you "legal immigrants" now we can forget about any and all immigration bills for the next 10 years."

Don't blame the legal immigrants. We haven't lobbied against the DREAM act. Our numbers are too small to influence these decisions.

[Legal and waiting]

Well, then you should read the 2006 version of the CIR (you will find a synopsis on Gregg's firm web-site). It was included great relief to the EBs along with the relief to illelgals, and it it was passed by the Senate. That was pre IV.