DOBBS SHOW LABELED HATE PROMOTER BY CIVIL RIGHTS GROUP

Do you want to see Lou Dobbs' head explode? Watch this interview with civil rights group La Raza's President Janet Murguía who came to put Dobbs on warning that her organization is taking on a new campaign to drive hate speech from the cable news networks. Dobbs basically responds saying that La Raza is just an ethnocentric group looking out for it's own. Of course, he doesn't explain what the Anti-Defamation League's motivation is. ADL was created by the nation's Jewish community, hardly a group that will see many of its members directly benefit from a legalization program. Dobbs' characterization of the ADL as "a joke" will certainly offend many people who admire ADL's work over the years to fight hate in America.

Comments

[THE VOICE!]

and thus spake another voice...

another round of name calling ends in glorious victory!
hail the empror (with no clothes) ! :-)

Another Voice - I have won the debate with you. I crown myself the victor. Any further lip from you just means you are a sore loser and a junk yard dog.

[Another voice]

Man poor you at the mercy of a Dictator!!!! Just because someone does not want to debate with a stubborn person that has no argument and constantly contradicts himself, does not mean they are dictating to you it just means that you need to move on. Or glorify Lou Dobbs somewhere else you won't find many friends here!!

"Another voice - so let me get this straight. In a debate - a person can declare themselves the victor at anytime and refuse further comment. Hmmm. Sounds like a strategy approved by dictators around the world."

Illegal mafia is much worse than dictators.

Another voice - so let me get this straight. In a debate - a person can declare themselves the victor at anytime and refuse further comment. Hmmm. Sounds like a strategy approved by dictators around the world.

[Another voice]

Greg I don't think he got the message he is like a junk yard dog.

"I'm sure you'll want to continue this back and forth, but I crown myself victor and have to move on to work on my new manuscript. Carry on :-)"

"Everything to do with breaking the law - your words. Then I quite thoroughly demonstrated that Dobbs is philosophically opposed to guest workers for economic reasons - reasons that had nothing to do with law and order but a fundamental economic objection to immigration. "

If that is the case - why did he call improvements to the H-2b program that will increase legal immigration "progress" this very night?

You haven't one the debate because your statements are contradicted by Dobbs own words just a few hours ago when he supported fixes the the H-2b program that INCREASE legal immigration.

Show me where Dobbs says to end all legal immigration or to drastically reduce legal immigration and I'll concede this debate. I can't find where he has said that.

You have a fundemental problem with any measure that has any workforce protections. You have a long history of complaining about such measures.

So to answer your question Greg - very few American field hands are replaced these days. That's because they were replaced almost a generation ago. So I don't agree with Dobbs if he says farm related immigration replaces American workers. That deed has already been done long ago.

I see bums (shamefully most of them are able bodied white men) outside our offices daily. I'm not sure that higher wages would attract them to do farm work. I have help wanted signs outside for low skilled workers and they would rather beg for money and sleep in the park than clean up for an interview and work 9-5 for a wage well above minimum wage plus a commission.

If I have something positive to say about migrant Mexican workers- they know how to put in an honest days work. Hell, they get a raw deal and deserve way more than they are paid.

Maybe if we didn't make it so easy for the bums they would get a job. I look them dead in the eye every time they ask for money and tell them that if they want a dime from me they've got to earn it. I'd like to see the sorry bastards tossed in jail for vagrancy. I have to walk past their urine daily - and in the hot sun you smell it. So if I have contempt for any of my fellow man - the vast majority of them are the same race as me.

The only thing that pisses me off more than able bodied bums are people who are healthy as a horse and manage to get handicap parking passes - and park in metered parking for free. There are some sorry people in this world. I wish police would setup a sting and impound their cars. If you walk briskly to work with a smile on your face you aren't handicapped. You deserve to have your car impounded and smashed into bits.

This is like therapy ;-)

[Greg Siskind]

Thanks, but I have now won the debate and you've fallen victim of the same trap antis always seem to set up. You began by saying that Dobbs was only interested in law and order:

"It is the "stop breaking the law factor". Get over it. Not everyone who wants to enforce the law is a hater. It has nothing to do with the color of skin - everything to do with breaking the law."

Everything to do with breaking the law - your words. Then I quite thoroughly demonstrated that Dobbs is philosophically opposed to guest workers for economic reasons - reasons that had nothing to do with law and order but a fundamental economic objection to immigration. And then you did exactly what I expected. Instead of remembering your earlier argument that Dobbs is pro-immigration, just against law breaking, you gave in to temptation and essentially admitted that your earlier argument was bogus and defended your real view - that immigration is bad. But this is not nearly as easy to sell to the average American as the law breaker argument and so you don't hear it nearly as often.

I'm sure you'll want to continue this back and forth, but I crown myself victor and have to move on to work on my new manuscript. Carry on :-)

" it ignores the stories about how the H-2A program steals jobs from American workers."

Greg, it is factual that immigration - illegal or legal - has replaced American workers from the farm. This isn't speculation or propoganda - fact. The farm is something I know very well.

In the early part of the 20th century, whites and blacks collectively worked the fields. When slavery was abolished in the prior century, the cost of agriculture went up - not only was cheap exploitable labor in short supply, our country was experiencing rapid population growth. Naturally, farmers found more automated ways of doing things and productivity rose.

Later, Mexicans via the Braceros programs edged out poor blacks and whites from the farms. Innovation is naturally stifled.

Today, only the old timers (elderly blacks) still work the farms - and they are few and far between. The fields are dominated by a migrant Mexican workforce - the vast majority are not documented.

Taking away the exploitable labor supply would be healthy for our farmers. It would force them to innovate even more. Find that elusive soft berry picking machine.

I'm not saying we kick them out of the country. Make them legal - and force farmers to obey the laws. The cost of labor will go up. Produce prices will go up some. Farmers who innovate will reap large rewards. The higher labor costs will drive innovation. This is a good thing. We should soften the blow to farmers with TEMPORARY subsidies that are given only to the farms that innovate.

I would like to go back to the farm one day and continue the tradition. But current economic realities prevent that. I am more likely to develop the land and add to sprawl than continue generations of farming and over 100 years of family history, the way things are going.

You talk about forcing everyone else to adapt to the global economy. It's time for the modern farm to adapt also. I don't think family farms will survive another generation unless we change things.

[Greg Siskind]

The problem with your statement is that it ignores the stories about how the H-2A program steals jobs from American workers. The stories basically are saying that we don't need foreign workers because they take jobs from US workers. In other words, the mere fact that there is a guest worker program is bad. Keep digging...

Of course he would be negative no the current H-2b program. It is broken!

It doesn't work for employers - too much paperwork. It doesn't work well for immigrants - they are defacto endentured servants and exploited by body shops. And it doesn't work for American workers - absolutely no protections or incentives to hire Americans first if they are willing and able to work.

Do you have anything positive to say about the program Greg? If it is such a great program, why do farmers choose illegal immigration over this program that has no caps?

I can't fault Dobbs for being negative about a broken system.

[Greg Siskind]

When you're possibly facing being fired, what else do you do? But I did a search of all mentions of the H-2A program on the transcripts of Dobbs show and found that every single reference had something negative to say about the H-2A.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/19/ldt.01.html - "humanitarian concerns" with H-2A program

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0504/14/ldt.01.html - criticizing H-2A program and the proposed reforms he seems to now praise calling it a return to the Bracero program of the 50s.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/05/dobbs.illegal/index.html - citing 3600 H-2A program violation citations

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/07/ldt.01.html - discussing exploitation by H-2A employers

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/11/ldt.01.html - report attempts to make it sound like H-2A is an amnesty program

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/17/ldt.01.html- Report on how big farms are using the H-2A program to bring in cheap labor at the expense of American workers

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/18/ldt.01.html - story on exploitation of H-2A workers

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0603/15/ldt.01.html - H-2A program used to take jobs from American workers

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/23/ldt.01.html - H-2A workers are paid 20% less than US workers (not true by the way)

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0603/15/ldt.01.html - H-2A workers stealing jobs from US workers

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0708/14/ldt.01.html - criticizing H-2A and bringing in cheap foreign labor in to the agricultural field

I meant h-2a, not h-1a

"Umm, how about a link to a single Dobbs story praising any aspect of legal immigration. Just one."

Dobbs, in tonight's broadcast, said in response to a comment that the Bush administration has a plan for farmers to hire legal immigrants: "That sounds like progress".

If Dobbs opposed all forms of immigration, why would he call efforts to increase legal immigration "progress"?

He praises legal immigration all the time. If people weren't too busy tossing out false allegations and actually listened to what he says - maybe you wouldn't make this mistake in judgement regarding Dobbs.

Farmers report that the H-1a program are burdensome - so the Bush administration is making the program better.

The only concern is the impact on immigrant wages and the impact on American workers. There is no incentive to hire local workers, and the UFW is concerned that it will result in lower wages for workers. I simply don't agree that it will lower wages - I think that legal programs that ENABLE legal guest workers to change jobs whenever they want will RAISE wages.

Lou points out that we have 8 guest worker programs. Instead of adding new programs, he says fix the ones we have. If he was anti-immigration he would suggest that we ban all immigration. He has never done that!

Stop trying to stonewall the debate. That is the ONLY reason people are attacking Lou Dobbs. They want to stop all debate now because they have an agenda.

[Greg Siskind]

>>Dobbs has said that he supports a path to legalization once security issues are first addressed. He opposes some guest worker programs because THEY DON'T WORK.<<

Umm, how about a link to a single Dobbs story praising any aspect of legal immigration. Just one. Come on, you say he's not anti-immigration, just for law and order. So for a guy who has run hundreds of stories on immigration over the last several years, you should have plenty to choose from. Some examples please.

"Dobbs wouldn't also oppose guest worker programs for people not yet in the country. "

BS. Dobbs has said that he supports a path to legalization once security issues are first addressed. He opposes some guest worker programs because THEY DON'T WORK.

We already had an amnesty. Illegals didn't get the message the first time around. I'm all for second chances but only after we fix the system, meaning comprehensive enforcement.

I don't hear you calling all the other nations who have way less immigration than we do racist. Mexico won't let in the Hondurans and people from Central America. Where is your outrage?

[Greg Siskind]

>>It is the "stop breaking the law factor".<<

If this were the case, Dobbs wouldn't also oppose guest worker programs for people not yet in the country. Dobbs' language is the real indicator of his feelings. You can be in favor of enforcing the law without all the rest of the inflammatory nonsense.

"You sound so naive, as if it was not common knowledge that the content of Lou Dobbs's show has the hate factor built into every piece they feature nightly."

It is the "stop breaking the law factor". Get over it. Not everyone who wants to enforce the law is a hater. It has nothing to do with the color of skin - everything to do with breaking the law.

[Another voice]

Defending Lou Dobbs for hate speech is trying to defend something that has no excuse or defense. But hey if people love him out there you are free to watch every night and buy his books. Its a free country............

[Another voice]

"La Raza didn't ask Lou to please be more polite. La Raza labeled him and other anchors as purveyors of hate. They said that because Lou showed 6 seconds of video from a group the ADL considers a hate group, Lou Dobbs is one also."

You sound so naive, as if it was not common knowledge that the content of Lou Dobbs's show has the hate factor built into every piece they feature nightly. Come on dude you are insulting people's intelligence.

I'll say it. "Invader" isn't hate speech. It is accurate - people are coming here illegally. Enough of the PC nonsense.

When 12 million people come into your country uninvited, just what should we call them? I know, undocumented workers. The PC cops are at it again. They have broken the law. In most countries, I doubt they would get off so easy - with a slap on the hand.

La Raza didn't ask Lou to please be more polite. La Raza labeled him and other anchors as purveyors of hate. They said that because Lou showed 6 seconds of video from a group the ADL considers a hate group, Lou Dobbs is one also.

[WD]

Lou dobbs calling undocumented aliens 'invaders' isn't hate-speech, but La Raza asking Lou to use a more civil language makes them a hate-group!

Antis are living in a twilight zone!

[La Raza off their rockers]

Their allegations against Dobbs are absurd. You may not agree with Dobbs, but the hate card is shameful.

Nevermind that the people they object to got literally seconds of air time years ago, let's just hurl the hate card.

La Raza may appeal to political correctness zealots like those here, but they are acting divisive. Most Americans are put off by this nonsense.

[AJAY SHARMA]

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WHAT HE SAYS/THINGS THE ONLY THING WRONG IS THAT HE SHOULD BE ON THE OTHERSIDE OF THE MIKE!

[TLB]

1. Anyone who says "raza" doesn't mean what it translates as is delusional or lying to you. "Volk" means "the people" too, but it doesn't mean "all people" in the same contexts as "raza" is used.

2. The NCLR isn't a "hate group", but they do fund extremists and they support illegal immigration every chance they get. Including releasing a report downplaying identity theft and more: tinyurl.com/2xrleb

3. Here's more on the NCLR's campaign: tinyurl.com/yvr2sz
Three of the groups involved have indirect links to the Mexican government.

"Lou Dobbs is a looser now that McCain has won pretty decisively."

I'm a Democrat, but I wouldn't call the McCain win "Decisive". Romney and Huckabee have more delegates than McCain when combined. Also, McCain is hated by the Republican base.

McCain will likely win the nomination (maybe the general - especially if Clinton is the nominee), but "decisive" is a stretch.

[George Chell]

"Dobbs will address these allegations tonight I am sure, now that Super Tuesday is finished."

Lou Dobbs is a looser now that McCain has won pretty decisively. What a joke!

[Greg Siskind]

>>I wonder if Greg agrees with her statement. Is interior enforcement and workplace enforcement the "right thing to do as Americans"?<<

Contrary to what some of the antis out there think, I am not against enforcement of immigration laws. Quite the opposite. I think a good immigration system is one that is generous in providing legal routes to immigrate based on family, employment, investment, or protection from persecution, but also one where the law is enforced. But I think it is irresponsible to focus solely on enforcement without dealing with the economic needs of the country and the impact an enforcement-only approach to immigration reform would have on the country. Provide a system where employers can legally bring in an adequate supply of needed workers and simultaneously focus on enforcing immigration laws so that we don't cut off our nose to spite our face.

[texanmom]

BTW, I forgot to address your issue about La Raza translating to "The Race"

So ignoramus, let me direct you to a detailed explanation of what La Raza means:

Many people incorrectly translate our name, “La Raza,” as “the race.” While it is true that one meaning of “raza” in Spanish is indeed “race,” in Spanish, as in English and any other language, words can and do have multiple meanings. As noted in several online dictionaries, “La Raza” means “the people” or “the community.” Translating our name as “the race” is not only inaccurate, it is factually incorrect. “Hispanic” is an ethnicity, not a race. As anyone who has ever met a Dominican American, Mexican American, or Spanish American can attest, Hispanics can be and are members of any and all races.

The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Mistranslating “La Raza” to mean “the race” implies that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.

You can find a full text of this and other myths about the organization fully explained at this location:
http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/

[OK, take back what I said about La Raza being hate group]

Guess I must eat crow. La Raza, despite their horrible choice of a name, doesn't appear to be a hate group. Here is what La Raza CEO Murguia says on immigration:

" In a speech in San Diego, NCLR CEO Janet Murguía stated: "First, as a sovereign nation, the United States has the right to determine who comes and who stays. . . [It also] has a right to consider enforcement at a variety of levels, including border enforcement, interior enforcement, and workplace enforcement. . . We support enforcement... [because] as Americans, we recognize it's the right thing to do."[14]"

I think her tactics against Dobbs are still pig headed and wrong, but based on further research it appears I was wrong in calling them a hate group or racist group. She came across very silly on that program.

I wonder if Greg agrees with her statement. Is interior enforcement and workplace enforcement the "right thing to do as Americans"?

"Show why what they're saying is false rather than attacking the messenger, and you'll have more credibility on this board. "

You are the one attacking the messenger (Dobbs). He put La Raza on even though they are CLEARLY a hate group. Sounds like fair coverage to me. The fact that you call them a civil rights group is laughable at best - I haven't seen them fighting for other minority groups. These guys are trying to market themselves as a civil rights group, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

Imagine if they were white and called themselves "The Race". Stop the double standard. The National Council of The Race (La Raza) is supported by the Nation of Aztlan. You should see what they have to say about them: http://www.adl.org/learn/Aztlan/Nation.asp

Whites don't have a monopoly on racism. Go to the home page RIGHT NOW and you will see that Hispanic leader Hugo Chavez is an anti-Semite: http://www.adl.org/. Nuff said.

[texanmom]

What I am honest about is
1. Saying the truth- ask Lou Dobbs to be more honest about admitting his lies/ misrepresentation on air and issue an apology

2. You can have a difference of opinion, but you cannot promote hate, which is what Lou Dobbs and gang do. It is not right to use terms like 'anchor babies', 'wholesale invasion' (??!!) and such to promote hate....

Media is a powerful tool and can be used to promote a debate that leads to solution of problems. But using it to promote hate and prejudices is irresponsible and cannot go unchecked. Any organization that takes on the task of bringing them in line will be commended and supported by me.

[Another voice]

This guy Lou Dobbs definetly can be acused of spreading hate talk on the airwaves. If Immigration reform ever becomes a reality he will have no show left. But CNN should definetly not have someone like Dobbs if they claim to be a reputable news organization.

[Greg Siskind]

Saying La Raza is racist is absurd. They advocate positions defending all immigrants, regardless of ethnicity or national origin. They are a civil rights group with a long and distinguished history so, of course, the groups that they point out as promoting hate would try to smear them. Show why what they're saying is false rather than attacking the messenger, and you'll have more credibility on this board.

[So you support hate groups also then]

"Go La Raza !! We support you all the way!"

At least you are honest about supporting a hate group. La Raza translates to "The Race" just in case you weren't sure if they were racist or not.

[texanmom]

Lou Dobbs accuses La Raza of 'disbanding him' and 'getting him fired'. He knows in his heart that if La Raza is successful and the network watches who he brings on air,what he says and puts an end to his lies/ misrepresentation/ hate mongering, Lou Dobbs has nothing else to offer! His ratings are going to tank, and he is going to be pulled off prime spots. It is the equivalent firing him! Go La Raza !! We support you all the way!

[ADL motivation?]

Not sure if they have an agenda (besides an anti-hate crusade which I support).

La Raza clearly has an agenda. The ADL hasn't attacked Dobbs as far as I know as an individual. They attacked groups Dobbs has interviewed. I was troubled by ADL findings - it made me reconsider my support of certain groups (in thought only - I've never supported these groups financially and have to ties to them). But, there are also flaws in the ADL analysis. Out of caution, I have chosen not to associate with groups the ADL lists as hate groups.

If I have a bone to pick, it's really with La Raza. They are just as much a hate group as any of the other groups are. Their tactics are divisive and discusting.

[Greg Siskind]

Explain to me again what the ADL's motivation is?

[Nothing against the ADL]

I don't agree with the ADL in their analysis - I find it completely unfair.

La Raza has gone way too far. This isn't an issue of bad analysis anymore. This is an issue of an ethno-centric group - which they are - tossing around the hate card.

It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Greg - do you support La Raza and everything they stand for? Hell, the ADL should investigate them.

[Greg Siskind]

Sorry, but ADL is one of the most respected organizations in the country and they have a nearly 100 year track record to point to. They will gain no points by taking on this issue as their donor base really is not concerned greatly with immigration. They're involved with this issue because it's simply morally the right thing to do.

Incidentally, it's a complete joke when Dobbs claims to be in favor of more legal immigration. He has run story after story criticizing legal immigration programs - H-1B, H-2B, L-1, EB-5, you name it. He should at least be honest about that point. I've been monitoring Dobbs for three years now and while he covers immigration every night without exception, I have yet to see a story that would be considered pro-immigration in any respect.

[ADL and La Raza are wrong]

Needlessly and unfairly pulling the hate card. This is nothing more than a smear campaign/witch hunt - and it discredits both organizations.

Dobbs will address these allegations tonight I am sure, now that Super Tuesday is finished.

You guys jumping on this also look rather silly. This is divisive and discusting behavior on the part of La Raza and the ADL.

[sdsfafs]

Gandhi once said 'Be the change you want to see'!

Wonder if Lou Dobbs has

1. Owned or owns stock in companies which outsource or use work visas
2. Wears or buys products made by companies which do not use foreign labor or outsource
3. CNN sponsors H1b visas, ethically if they have not or do not pay 'prevailing wage', would he start an investigation and quit?
4. hmmm, even the mic he talks into or camera he sees into is likely made in China or Japan!

His hate speechs only fools the general public who don't invest in stocks or even sell them. I would be little surprised if he comes out open!

[George Chell]

Big loss for Lou "the lunatic looser" Dobbs tonight as the McCain juggernaut gets closer to the GOP nomination.