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November 07, 2008

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OK, I'm going to lock this thread. I don't think anything productive is being said and the tone of the comments is nasty and personal.

This web site has been taken over by fanatic Marxist left wing extremist "Indians". Shameless lefties. Take the case of the hypocrite "goog guy". I would like this uber-hypocrite to list or does he even admit to the existence of violence and genocide done by the other religion? continuing to binflicted every week with bombs in markets, and temples across the length and breadth of India. Shamelss hypocrites like him are the reason for the existence and grwoth of VHP.

It is ironical that the perorations of Vijay Prashad -- a leftwing extremist -- are being used to level allegations of "fascism" against Shah. Prashad is believer in the fascist ideology of socialism/marxism that murdered 80 million people world-wide, and still continues to kill innocent people as we speak. A few years ago, Indian American intellectual Rajiv Malhotra tried to engage Prashad in a debate. After a couple of exchanges, Prashad disappeared from the debate, perhaps reckoning that his Hindu-baiting game was up. He was specifically asked a question: Are Hindus the Left's "The Other"? No answer.

Congratulations to Sonal Shah. Successful immigrant Hindus are often the target of concerted smear campaigns, executed if not deisgned, sadly, by the Indian American footsoldiers of global Islamism and evangelism, with a little help from their pals back home in India. I'm confident that Ms Shah will prove that talent prevails over vicious and divisive campaigns.

Fellow Bharatiya/Indian:

If someone trying to play dirty games, please do it inside our country (India). Don't play it outside, in foreign land. It only exposes your own dirty quality and low character. Note, what you do, what your character is.

I feel sad to see, Indian and Indian-origin people living outside show such low character. Do you bring any respect and dignity to our nation, India? Shame shame on such people. Grow up and be civilised. Else, westerners should spit in your face.

Goog Guy - No posts have been removed from this thread. I thought about locking the thread since we have ventured far from the topic of immigration, but I decided just to leave things alone.

http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/

Here is the link of BJP's Prime Ministerial Candidate Mr. L. K. Advani's website. Show me a single fascist thing on this website. You can see greatest ever cricket player Sachin Tendulkar and a billionaire Infosys Chairman Mr. Narayanmurthy with Mr. Advani.

Now do you want to say that Mr. Narayanmurthy and Sachin Tendulkar are fascist?

Looks like you are back with your lies and innuendo. Your guilt by association logic is a bit like saying that member of the Catholic church should be tarred and feathered for the Spanish Inquisition. As a matter of fact while it is true that Gandhi's assassin was a former member of the RSS, it is also true that the Supreme Court of India acquitted RSS leaders and asked the then Congress government to lift the ban imposed on the organization.

Those who want to learn more about the RSS can read about it here and make up their own minds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh

I am back but this will be my last comment on this topic.

One of my earlier responses was removed from the postings. In that posting I had made a remark that the folks who shot and killed the father of Indian Nation Mahatma Gandhi came from the RSS ranks.

Now if BO really respects Mahatma Gandhi whose pictures appear to adorn the walls of his senate office ( from press reports )then he should immediately look into the background of this woman and take necessary steps.


This woman appears so intelligent , educated and succesful but chooses to assoiciate with a fringe right wing militant group like RSS which speaks a lot about her character and judgement.


Last but not the least , every tax payer in this country has the right to ask questions about people seeking public office, since we dont work 10-12 hours a day like Joe the attorney, to select such people for important positions.


Violence breeds Violence and RSS knows it best !!

I think it is wonderful that Sonal Shah has found effective ways of giving back to the community. Her presence on the transition team is a good reminder that those of us with the means need to increase our support for organizations serving the poor during these challenging economic times.

"I think the DHS could do a much better job keeping members of the communist party out as well."

I am not going to write on Sonal Shah again here. If she is a member of VHPA, its distasteful and hope Greg will remove her from the list.

If not then more power to her.

"Ask Mr. Modi why he can't visit the US."

Since when has the US been invulnerable to political smear campaigns?

I think the DHS could do a much better job keeping members of the communist party out as well.

I don't think any political party in India can claim the high ground. We know that Indian politics is as dirty as it can get. If things had been so rosy in India, we probably wouldn't have had to come to the U.S. Maybe that's why Sonal Shah is here. Why don't you jokers judge her by her actions instead of media sound bites.

"No, because the VHP, RSS or the BJP are not hate groups."

DHS seems to think killing innocent Muslims is a hate crime. Ask Mr. Modi why he can't visit the US.

DHS should keep Modi and his supporters out of this country.

Wonder if it is possible to revoke naturalized US citizenship based on association with foreign hate groups?

" is/was Sonal Shah an active member of a hate group? "

No, because the VHP, RSS or the BJP are not hate groups.

Frankly the theory that the Gujarat riots were planned by the RSS or BJP is ridiculous when seen in the full context. At the time of the riots the BJP government ruling India was poised to declare war on Pakistan due to the terrorist attack on Parliament. It is hard to believe that the BJP or RSS would act to undermine such an objective by causing a riot in Gujarat.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/mar/02spec1.htm

"It occurred because 59 Hindu pilgrims were burnt to death unnecessarily by some Muslim nutjobs."

You are justifying the killing in Gujarat based on an incident elsewhere? Are these the same group of people? You believe in collective punishment? Would it be okay if now Hindus are targeted in Indonesia?

This is besides the minor point that it has not been established that the Hindu pilgrims were deliberately set on fire. There has been other claims as to the cause.

The fact of the matter is Hindu groups under CM Norendra Modi and PM Vajpayee indulged in killing for days out of hatred. And the govt just let it be. Shouldn't the govt of that time instead have tried to punish those responsible for the death of the 59 Hindu pilgrims.

Irrespective of your claim, you support targeting Muslims just because of their religion as you rush to justify the killings. I only wish the DHS would do a better job of keeping Mr. Modi and his supporters out of this country.

As to why not banning BJP? Rule of law is not consistently applied in India. Involvement of BJP top leaders Adwani and Uma Bharati in Babri Majid demolition is an established fact from TV reports ...'Give one more Push". Why laws get selectively enforced in India, take a wild guess. How often do you have to worry about speeding on Indian highways? Do you worry about ticketing as in US?

The Congress govt killing Sikh in Delhi or Muslims in Kashmir doesn't give RSS a free hand to do that either. The only issue here: is/was Sonal Shah an active member of a hate group?

Those who do not know about train burning, here is the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning

This guy HinduIndian says about Gujarat riots. Riots of any kind is bad, inhuman. But this guy did not give reason about why this riot occurred. It occurred because 59 Hindu pilgrims were burnt to death unnecessarily by some Muslim nutjobs.

Both action and reaction were wrong, but what gets me angry is these selectively blaming Hindus forgetting about other communities.

"I don't understand why RSS and its political wing BJP are not banned in India."

That's because much of what you read in the media about the RSS and BJP is a politically motivated smear campaign. The problem with translating smear campaigns into a ban is that you need evidence that will stand up in court for such actions.

Also contrary to your claims, there is only one Indian Prime Minister and political party which is known to have condoned genocide, and it is not anyone associated with the RSS or BJP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Big_Tree_Falls

If "she was an active member of the VHPA" as claimed then its a serious problem. The activities of RSS/BJP/VHP/Sangh Parivar in the recent Gujarat riot (thousands killed) is well known. Pregnant muslim women were cut open and their unborn thrown into fire according to news report. Gujarat CM was rightly denied US visa for condoning genocide. Indian PM Vajpayee should also be held accountable for not putting a stop to the violence. The Gujarat riots are only one example of atrocities on Muslims by Hindu nut jobs in Gujarat in recent times.

It is one thing to support a right wing political party for free market but quite another to support a right wing political party that indulge in wide spread physical violence. I don't understand why RSS and its political wing BJP are not banned in India. You can't participate in democracy if violence is your method of choice (RSS). These are the same group of people that actually went and destroyed a medieval mosque (Babri Majid) out of hatred.

VHPA is Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America
VHP is Vishwa (world) Hindu Parishad (council)

Weekend Edition
November 7 / 9, 2008
The Many Faces of Sonal Shah
Obama's Indian

By VIJAY PRASHAD

Barack Obama has appointed John Podesta to run his transition. During the lean years of the Bush administration, Podesta, native of Chicago, ran a shadow cabinet for the Democrats. Since 2003, the home of this government-in-exile has been the Center for American Progress (CAP), a liberal think tank set-up to rival the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute. The money, about $10 million per year, came from George Soros, Peter Lewis, Marion Sandler and Herb Sandler – the main liberal financiers. CAP has its set of fellows. Many of them worked in some capacity within the Clinton administration (where Podesta was Chief of Staff). There are hard-nosed people like Rudy deLeon (who went through every Defense secretariat in the Clinton years) and Jeanne Lambrew (who served as a health analyst in the National Economic Council during the waning years of the Clinton administration). But there are also the fresh faces, young people who came to Washington with glowing references from the Ivy League. Others marched over from the Hill, after serving various terms as staff members for the Democratic warhorses. They have been groomed to be part of the next Democratic administration. Their hibernation is over. Obama has called.

The likely suspects have picked up the phone and moved to the transition headquarters. Among them is a former CAP fellow and now Google employee, Sonal Shah. Shah is well known in the South Asian American community, and is a fixture in the Washington liberal circuit. The latter know her for her Democratic credentials, most of which seem to lie somewhere between neo-liberalism and welfare liberalism. The bleeding heart pauses, but then ticks again to the tune of pragmatism. This is perfect material for the CAP, which is hardly enthusiastic about the Democratic Leadership Council’s total commitment to triangulation (which means capitulation to conservatism), but it is not averse to a little political calculus itself. Shah, a product of the University of Chicago, shined her corporate shoes at Anderson Consulting (who was Enron’s accountant), which probably made it easier for her to go into Clinton’s Treasury Department, where she helped Robert Rubin put a U. S. stamp on the post-1997 Asian economic recovery. The corporate side was balanced with an interest in the ideology of “giving back.” When Bush took office, Shah went to the Center for Global Development, and while there joined her brother Anand in forming Indicorps. Knowing full well the desire among many South Asian Americans to give back to their homeland, the Shahs created an organization to help them go and volunteer in India, to do for them what the Peacecorps did for young liberals in the 1960s. Shah left the CAP to work for Goldman Sachs, and then went to Google. Shah’s story is not unlike that of most of the CAP fellows, many of whom honed their dexterity at trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, capital and freedom, private accumulation and human needs.

But there is a less typical side to the Shah story. Born in Gujarat, India, Shah came to the United States as a two-year old. Her father, a chemical engineer, first worked in New York before moving to Houston, and then moving away from his education toward the stock market. The Shahs remain active in Houston’s Indian community, not only in the ecumenical Gujarati Samaj (a society for people from Gujarat), but also in the far more cruel organizations of the Hindu Right, such as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Overseas Friends of the BJP (the main political party of the Hindu Right) and the Ekal Vidyalaya. Shah’s parents, Ramesh and Kokila, not only work as volunteers for these outfits, but they also held positions of authority in them. Their daughter was not far behind. She was an active member of the VHPA, the U. S. branch of the most virulently fascistic outfit within India. The VHP’s head, Ashok Singhal, believes that his organization should “inculcate a fear psychosis among [India’s] Muslim community.” This was Shah’s boss. Till 2001, Shah was the National Coordinator of the VHPA.

In 2004, I ran into Shah at the South Asian Awareness Network conference in Ann Arbor, Michigan. At an earlier panel I questioned her links to the Hindu Right, and so asked people to be wary about her organization, Indicorps. She was furious, and we had a bitter exchange in the Green Room. But at no point did she deny her active connections to the Hindu Right. Her brother, Anand, wrote to me not long after, concerned that Indicorps, which he runs full-time from India, would be tainted by our tussle. “I was curious about Sonal’s own personal relationship with the VHPA,” I wrote back, “That sparked some concern for me. Of course we are free to have our multiple associations, and there is no expectation that all our affiliations necessarily influence each other. That necessity is granted, although it is my understanding that the VHPA is a very disciplined organization that demands a lot from its members – notably congruence in all the work that they do. Which is why I raised the question.”

And so I raise the question again.

For more, please go to http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad11072008.html.

excellent reply Another Indian. This congress party is still presiding over the genocide of ordinary Indians today by playing vote bank politics. Congrats Sonal. And ignore this Indian guy who seems to me from the pampered community in India.

I don't know about other Indians here but in my view the biggest genocidal criminals in recent Indian history are Mountbatten, Gandhi, Jinnah, Nehru, the Muslim League and the Indian National Congress. These august worthies presided over the genocidal murder of a million people in 1947 during the partition of India. Further the last two political parties brought India and Pakistan to a state of penury following independence. Nothing else comes close to the crimes these people have committed.

no offense mr siskind i have a lot of respect for you.

as for the dishonorable thing she has done ... whats more dishonorable that having any connections to RSS ( folks who have comiited attocities and members banned by the US govt)..

this woman is no big deal .. even BO had to through RW under the bus when things became to hot handle..

As you trash this woman, show me something that says she's ever done anything dishonorable. I don't care about her family. I judge a person by their own deeds. Sending me 1000 links about the activities of others does not change the basic truth that a person should be judged by their own behavior and not their relatives. Show me credible evidence that Ms. Shah has ever engaged in anything objectionable and you would have more of a point. If not, then this is just character assassination.

hello dear siskind, it appears you dont have any background about rss parivar, bajran dal or vhp. according to you "guilt by association theory" does not hold water in this case which means to me that if I ask you to jump from the top of a 50 storied building you will do without a thought knowing very well what lies beneath. just that you know the folks who shot MK Gandhi also came from the RSS ranks. You should already kow that RSS people have been denied entry to the US several times...

Google for RSS, VHP, Bajran Dal and you know what I am talking about.

http://ibsresources.org/articles/staines.shtml
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Christians_Sangh_Parivars_new_target/articleshow/3505720.cms
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2005/43643.htm


That article was posted before and it did not point to any activities she's taken that are objectionable. See my comment from earlier. This reminds me of the Reverend Wright story about Obama. Just because someone knows someone with objectionable views or is even related to a person who has objectionable views does not mean the person shares the views. It is unfair to attribute the views of the parents to the child. I thought the article was very irresponsible.

According to hindustantimes (one of the widely read newspapers in India .. a la NYT or WP in the USA ), this woman is connected with RSS a militant right wing organisation. Her selection is ridiculous and she should be immediately asked to leave the transition team without delay. RSS is notorious for its militant activities against minorities in India. This is very shameful. We need CHANGE we can BELIEVE in. Fire this woman immediately !!!

Please read more about Sonal Shah at the following link

http://www.indicorps.org/docs/INDIA_ABROAD_12-19-2003.pdf

She has done great humanitarian work during her short life, while working at her very illustrative career. I wish we had more people like her all over the world.

"I can't claim to be an expert on Indian politics"

The BJP likes to mix religion with politics. Call them the Indian Republicans, if you will. Personally, I don't care for the BJP and find their propensity to divide people based on religion deplorable. However, being a BJPite doesn't necesarily mean that you are a religious bigot. There are many who vote BJP because of their free market idealogy.

I can't claim to be an expert on Indian politics, but the article you sent had only one direct connection - helping in earthquake relief. If anything, it seems like she's avoided being involved in politics at home and no one had anything bad to say about the non-profit she created to promote development in the country. Frankly, the guilt by association gotcha politics that we saw in this year's US campaign was a lot to stomach. If you have evidence that Ms. Shah holds extremist beliefs, present them. But it sounds like you're engaged in character assassination. Judge the woman by her deeds which from all accounts seem admirable.

"And she has links to fascist Hindu organizations from India. "

Ho hum considering we have lived through 8 years of fascist Christian rule.

Read all about it here - http://oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Most likely she will get a slot where no senate confirmation is needed...ED to an international organization.

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