A PLAN TO TAKE CONGRESS OUT OF THE EQUATION ON DETERMINING FOREIGN WORKER NUMBERS?

The LA Times has a very interesting article talking about potential plans for comprehensive immigration reform that involve a major - and risky - change in strategy. According to the report, the CIR bill would look very similar to prior years, but in order to appease labor unions, a new independent commission would be created to assess employment-based visa numbers. According to the LA Times

The new proposal, as laid out by several participants in the behind-the-scenes negotiations, would also create an independent commission that would assess labor and industry data to decide how many foreign workers should be allowed into the country. The system, designed by Ray Marshall, a Labor secretary under President Carter, would replace a maze of special temporary worker visas that are granted each year to high-tech specialists, agriculture workers and other foreigners brought into the U.S. by foreign and domestic firms.

The article mentions that this proposal could cause key Republicans like John McCain to drop their support for CIR.

And I can understand why pro-business advocates in Congress would be concerned. I'm also worried about labor unions having the final say in determining visa numbers since - sorry to say it - they have a tendency to act like the OPEC cartel when it comes to allowing employers access to needed workers. In the nursing context, a few labor organizations have done everything possible to preserve a severe nursing shortage - a shortage that endangers patients but has the happy effect of dramatically driving up wages. I'm happy when labor unions work to protect working conditions for exploited immigrant workers. But they should not be permitted to dictate populist protectionist policies that damage our economy.

On the other hand, Congress has done a dreadful job determining appropriate visa numbers. In the past, they cut numbers as we were coming out of a recession and raised them when a boom was ending. And we're now at a number for H-1Bs and skilled/professional worker green cards that was set in 1990 even though our economy is much larger. The result has been employers voting with their feet and outsourcing jobs to foreign countries, taking employment opportunities for Americans away as well. The status quo clearly isn't working either.

We also have international treaty obligations that bar us from imposing protectionist measures that would result in fewer visa numbers so I suspect that there would be constraints on anything too draconian being imposed by a commission. We already have seen this reality serve as a useful firewall during recent attempts to bar TARP-recipient banks from having access to H-1B workers. Congress backed down on a plan to bar such employers from using the visas since it would have likely violated our obligations under the General Agreement on Trade in Services.

I suspect the devil is in the details including

- how will commission members be appointed
- how long will terms be and what power will a President have to replace someone
- are specific "slots" reserved for labor interests, business interests, etc.
- will the commission merely make recommendations or will they have actual authority to set numbers and visa rules

I'm interested in hearing more about this proposal because I could actually see some benefits in a TRULY independent commission that actually could actually make needed changes based on what's in the best interest of the country rather than just meeting short term political demands. So what will be important is learning how Congress will ensure that the commission will not simply be a tool for one interest or another.

Comments

[Jenda]

Congress already has too many ways to avoid responsibility. If each Congressman can safely tailor his message to his audience on every issue without being forced to make a decision in an actual vote, what is the point of electing these people?

[Gregory W. Christian, Washington, DC]

For years, I've been saying that one of the major problems with US immigration policy is that the law isn't responsive enough to a dynamic economy. When the dot-com boom happened in the late-90s, for example, it was three years before Congress increased the H-1B cap. By then, the industry had taken a downward turn; but it was another three years before the increase ended. We need to do better.

So I like the idea of an independent body determining how many work visas (both immigrant and non-immigrant) are to be issued each year. DOL, the Federal Reserve and/or the council of economic advisors, a few or several state employment agencies and business and labor representatives could serve as advisors to the panel which would have to make its determinations by June 30 (at the latest) for the fiscal year that starts Oct 1. And mid-year adjustments would be allowable.

And one additional provision I would add: if any member of the panel gets convicted of taking a bribe or kickback, a mandatory life imprisonment sentence would be imposed.

[Jim]

"OMG! Did you hear this Greg? Nurse will go!!! Hurry up!!!!"

The flavor of the month among those countries seems to be Australia.

Nurses from the UK prefers it than other countries after the US.

Nurses from the Philippines, meanwhile are finding out that Queensland, Australia is more accommodating, has lesser requirements and has a less stringent and affordable registration process compared to other states in Australia.

It has gathered great momentum ever since the disastrous April Visa Bulletin.

Some foreign-educated nurses are also advising those who have not yet started any exams and immigration process for the US not to start at all citing the years they have waited and all the exams and other documents such as visa screen certifications they have to take and pay and just expiring w/ them still on their home countries.

Once they are settled on other countries, it would really be hard to get them back.

[Greg Siskind]

Pascaul - Immigration lawyers are not going to be the savior. The real difference is made when hospitals, patients, doctors, overworked American nurses and others make real noise on the issue. And that is not happening as much as it should.

[Pascaul]

"Hello Greg,

I sincerely hope that the congress and the attorneys in USA are aware that the Nurse have almost stopped taking NCLEX RN exam. A large number of the Nurses from Asia who had filed their I 140 petitions have now started moving to Australia, Newzeland, Ireland etc. If the congress delays the retrogression relief, the congress will need to bring in two legislation when the US will be in desparate need for Nurses. One legislation will be for waiving off the educational requirement of NCLEX and other for releasing visas. All are under the impression that there about 30,000 to 35,000 RNs available for USA if retrogression relief comes, but the truth will be that not even 20,000 will finally be available since those settled in Ireland or Australia will no longer be interested to come to USA."

OMG! Did you hear this Greg? Nurse will go!!! Hurry up!!!!

[GG]

Immigration reform tough during crisis, Biden says
1 hr 44 mins ago

SAN JOSE, Costa Rica (Reuters) – The economic slump and soaring unemployment in the United States mean this is not a good time to push immigration reform, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden told Central American leaders on Monday.

"It's difficult to tell a constituency while unemployment is rising, they're losing their jobs and their homes, that what we should do is in fact legalize (illegal immigrants) and stop all deportation," Biden told a news conference in the Costa Rican capital.

President Barack Obama said during his election campaign that he supported comprehensive immigration reform, as countries like Mexico have been urging for years.

Some 12 million illegal immigrants live in the United States, many from Mexico and Central America. The economic crisis has made many U.S. workers more hostile to legalizing those without papers.

"We believe, the president and I, that this problem can only be solved in the context of an overall immigration reform," Biden said, asked about the chances of extending temporary migrant protection programs.

"We need some forbearance as we try to put together a comprehensive approach to deal with this."

Biden was in Costa Rica to meet Central American leaders at an informal regional summit.

A comprehensive overhaul of immigration laws -- including plans for a guest worker program -- was killed off by Republicans in the U.S. Senate in 2007, although many Central Americans have been able to stay in the United States under the Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, system.

(Reporting by John McPhaul; Editing by Eric Beech)

[George Chell]

"Another interesting piece !!"

Not going to happen. Why? GOP is very heavily concentrated in the south. White southerners are their base and about 50% of them call themselves evangelicals..they are actually white skin worshipping pagans such as those who send their kids to the all-white Bob Jones Academy..the GOP cannot afford to antagonize these pagans...end of story!!

[gg]

Another interesting piece !!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6348331.html

[Jim]

"Try Singapore. The costs are far less than that of US medical care and the health care as good and if not better as far as primary care is concerned! "

We'll wait when you post from SG sometime in June. : )

[George Chell]

"I agree that the quality of healthcare in India is nowhere comparable to that in the U.S. The problem is and will always be cost. Those who worry about the government taking over healthcare do not realize that it's already a socialist system."

Try Singapore. The costs are far less than that of US medical care and the health care as good and if not better as far as primary care is concerned!

[Jim]

No HC system in the world is perfect. There is no such thing.

What I believe though is that HC need not be overtly expensive and should be accessible to everyone.

America will always be the innovator in HC and it will be that way for decades to come but what use is it to have the latest medical technology, etc.. if it's ordinary citizen can't afford it or don't have access to it?

At the end of the day - delivering that technology and service for everyone is what that counts. If you can't deliver it to the average patient that needs it most then what good is it.

Canada's single-payer system is having problems as well. Patients being asked to wait for months is also no good. They may have universal HC and relatively lower cost
but with the expense of accessibility. They need to allow private to come in and compete.

The opposite should be done in the US. I think they need to introduce universal HC as another option just to check the high cost of HC brought about by the dominance of insurance companies.

Public and private competition is the key. Not that it will be perfect as there is no such thing but at least cost will be lowered and accessibility increased.

France, I believe has both system in place ??

[Sid]

doc-waiting,

Thanks for your insights. I agree that the quality of healthcare in India is nowhere comparable to that in the U.S. The problem is and will always be cost. Those who worry about the government taking over healthcare do not realize that it's already a socialist system. Trial lawyers and insurance companies have ensured that the costs are shared by all. Is suing a doctor for malpractice the only way of ensuring quality? How about a system where the reputation of a doctor (and hence his/her business) rises and falls with the quality of his/her work? How about a system where consumers make choices about the quality of healthcare he/she needs based on transparent costs? The U.S. healthcare market is an inefficient market because information about costs is asymmetric and consumers have limited options in terms of shopping around for the best option for him/her. For example, if I have a simple disease I may not care about getting treated by the best doctor in the world. A lousy but cheap doctor would do fine. On the other hand, if I had cancer, I would probably try to see a good doctor even if costs are high. Consumers in the U.S. do not have this choice where as consumers in India do. So, in some ways, the healthcare system in India is better. Most people involved in healthcare in the U.S. do not have a strong incentive to reduce costs. They will eventually have to, once medical tourism becomes more popular.

Opinions are often shaped by personal experience. I once waited in the E.R. for 4 hours with severe stomach ache and by the time a doctor saw me, the pain had subsided so the doctor told me that it was probably due to gas and let me go. They still charged me around 200 $'s. At that time I had a PPO, so I had to pay that in full. I received a very high quality of service from the admin people, significantly better than the rude ones you meet in India but I would gladly choose that over the 200 $'s I had to fork out for no tests and no treatment.

[doc-waiting]

1. I have worked in both health care systems, US and India.
Any notion that the Indian system is either "perfect" or near perfect" or even somehow an ideal to emulate is misplaced and comes from ignorance. Please ask those that have seen the bowels of the system.
2. There is no question that the US system is flawed. The point about certain specialties being grossly overpaid is spot on. I hope you also understand that everyone knows this. The will to change it is not there. Those specialties that have the money and therefore the clout and power, ensure that their vested interests are always at the forefront.
3. The idea that US health care "lacks quality" is misplaced IMHO. Nothing is perfect, and we can sure do better. But this system is not only the most scrutinized, it also deals with the most demanding consumers that in turn take zero personal responsibility. Please don't quote statistics back at me. I know them. Sure, our neonatal mortality is more. But we also expect 20 week fetuses to survive. So things are usually more complex than they seem. there is nothing wrong with US training or physician or health care standards, the problems mostly lie elsewhere.

There is a great tendency to be armchair experts and sit in the US extolling Europe or India or Canada. It would behoove the experts to ask those in the systems. I often get that opportunity. It's enlightening. Also, the environments and consumers being so different, one nation's perfect health care system could well be another's disaster.

Just my 2c. No offense intended.

[Jack]

'would replace a maze of special temporary worker visas that are granted each year'

Attorneys need mazes!

So which would be easier to corrupt by the various special interests, Congress or this 'independent commission' and can you imagine who could get appointed to this thing--I'm afraid to even guess. You can bet they will be about as independent as Cheney's energy task force!

[George Chell]

"With regards to nurse salaries, I think it still has room for a few % more increase in salaries over-time but definitely not double over a period of a just a few years w/c I think what nursing organizations and other orgs with vested interest are trying to do by preserving the nursing shortage."

Towards the end of May I will jump on a plane and fly to one of the countries mentioned in the article for medical check up..You will find out which one when I post from that country in June...I do this every year.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

"OMG, This is liberal version of points based system :) "

You mean, like the Canadian one, that actually worked? LOL!

[Jim]

"After all, who doesn't want to emulate the U.S?"

They better not. It's a flawed model that doesn't benefit the patients but benefits only the insurance companies and some greedy people. India is better off with it's current system and just need some tweaks and some improvements in my humble opinion.

[Sid]

George & Jim,

There are two major differences between healthcare in the U.S. and India (till 9 years back when I was still around) -

1) The Indian healthcare system for most part is a free market system. No healthcare providers - no middlemen => lower costs. Doctors not associated with hospitals and nursing homes set up their own private practices. You get sick, you go to the best doctor you can afford. Those who can't afford that go to the government hospitals at their own risk.

2) Doctors do not buy malpractice insurance. People do not sue doctors for millions if something goes wrong. This is another major reason for healthcare costs going through the roof in the U.S.

There are exceptions to these rules and I suspect that with so many MNCs setting up shop there, healthcare providers have a more active role to play now. After all, who doesn't want to emulate the U.S?

[Jim]

@George,

That was an excellent article from CNN. Pretty much summed up everything on what is wrong with the US Healthcare and other 1st world Healthcare systems.

I think value and accessibility would be the areas that the US HC system must compete.

I know it would be unrealistic to bring down HC costs similar to India and other countries but HC costs need not be 10-20x more expensive with practically the same technology, service and medical procedure.

With regards to salaries, I agree that doctors in the US are overpaid. Doctors, esp. on select specialties deserve high salaries but not as high as they are getting now. In the mean time primary physicians, geriatricians, general internists and other less glamorous areas are not getting a fair share of well-deserved salaries. Some one has to burst that bubble and re-allocate it primary physicians, et al.

With regards to nurse salaries, I think it still has room for a few % more increase in salaries over-time but definitely not double over a period of a just a few years w/c I think what nursing organizations and other orgs with vested interest are trying to do by preserving the nursing shortage.

[George Chell]

Want to double the salary of nurses and doctors as the antis in FAIR and CIS want..want to increase the cost of health care..they will live with the consequences...dont think that people will not seek medical treatment abroad due to lower costs...think again...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/27/india.medical.travel/index.html

[gg]

Interesting article !!! :)

[Greg Siskind]

George - That's a great idea.

[George Chell]

Perhaps they need to create a unit in the federal reserve system to do this..if they want to take it away from the congress..they are the best people to determine without any partisanship as to how many workers the economy requires or how many workers are needed to ramp up growth without igniting inflation!

[D]

OMG, This is liberal version of points based system :)

[George Chell]

Perhaps this is what they want and expect to see these incidents repeated if we do away with H1B or drastically strengthen the restrictions...

http://www.kttc.com/Global/story.asp?S=10076603&nav=menu1348_2_6

No one owes anyone anything. Furthermore is there a constitutional issue? I thought only elected members can make decision on immigration. It may not survive the courts.

[George Chell]

If they want jobs to move abroad, this is a very good idea!

[Legal and no longer waiting]

I think, the influence of organized labor is way too overestimated. I believe taking Congress out of the decision making is a good thing. Putting immigration quotas by the law makes just about as much sense as setting gas prices through the law.

[Another voice]

Seriously doubt that this could work out with out the support of Business and a few republicans....Labor Unions are no fiends of immigrants nor business, this is pretty bad!!!

[Jim]

"Nowhere in near future will green card lose its value"....

Believe me, I know what you mean and agree with most of what you say.

I was exaggerating with regards to the EU/blue card comment and the China comment just to make a point : )

[raji]

Hello Greg,

I sincerely hope that the congress and the attorneys in USA are aware that the Nurse have almost stopped taking NCLEX RN exam. A large number of the Nurses from Asia who had filed their I 140 petitions have now started moving to Australia, Newzeland, Ireland etc. If the congress delays the retrogression relief, the congress will need to bring in two legislation when the US will be in desparate need for Nurses. One legislation will be for waiving off the educational requirement of NCLEX and other for releasing visas. All are under the impression that there about 30,000 to 35,000 RNs available for USA if retrogression relief comes, but the truth will be that not even 20,000 will finally be available since those settled in Ireland or Australia will no longer be interested to come to USA. We sincerely hope you will bring the above points to the notice of congress. Greg, any update on new version of 5924?

[mulberry]

Are you kidding me?? -"Labor unions will decide how many people come into the country"

If people are dumb enough to consider this view, then they should consider the diametrically opposite view - "Immigrants themselves will decide if they want to come and go"

Both the ideas do not make sense, and that's precisely why they should not be allowed.

[Nurse]

"If the US makes one major false move and becomes a protectionist nation, EU and other nations will cease the opportunity.
People will soon clamor more for blue cards that the green card."

Nowhere in near future will green card lose its value. US is not just a destination for leading better life in monetary terms. Racism in Europe is very widespread. They have shown very good tendency to favor white people and pass regulations to keep them in power. People in US are to be commended for electing black president and getting beyond the racial terms. This is a big factor when intelligent people chose place to stay. Incase you have not noticed lot of doctors, engineers are shifting from UK to Canada/US. I don't see many people leaving US to go to Europe. US is a very fair country and its people are more accepting than any other people I have seen so far on planet. Here laws are not just in books but actually followed in real life. In UK you will never see anti racism laws being followed in real life.

[Nurse]

"The result has been employers voting with their feet and outsourcing jobs to foreign countries, taking employment opportunities for Americans away as well. The status quo clearly isn't working either."

These same employers will not think twice before outsourcing jobs regardless of h1b/GC numbers. They save nearly 60-70% on entry level programmer by sending it to India. Entry level job here is 60k and in India entry level job pays 6k by companies like Infosys, TCS etc. No amount of regulation can stop outsourcing when savings are so huge. I don't see how this argument of increasing h1b can stop outsourcing.
Decoupling h1b and employer to some extent can stop exploitation of h1b workers by body shoppers. Outsourcing is a big monster which will be difficult to control. It didn't stop manufacturing base to shift to China. It will not stop Admin base to go to India.

[Jim]

If it's going to be a truly independent commission and leaves out groups that have vested interest for or against it, why not.

If it's going to be just another stepping stone for certain unions to get more powerful and get more influence and political clout, it will back fire on America's economy.

This would make China more a capitalist nation and USA the socialist nation, in my humble opinion.

In a time that other nations are opening up even more than ever in these times, the US is going the opposite direction.

It's already happening now.... the EU is resisting the US's and UK's pushing them to do more stimulus.

If the US makes one major false move and becomes a protectionist nation, EU and other nations will cease the opportunity.

People will soon clamor more for blue cards that the green card.

[Dev.d]

I shudder to imagine the magnitude of damage that will be done with labour commissions setting up and overlooking skilled worker migration as against economists and business leaders. What is more of a concern though is the fact that the fog and tremors created by the recession at present will directly dictate and influence long term immigration policies regarding skilled worker. Now that is a dangerous reality that can easily be given into.

[AD]

Good luck with this. Congress will refuse to give away its power and let immigration dictated by prejudices of some other educated folks rather than their own egos. Why would any member of congress want to lose some of his/her bargaining power by putting it in the hands of labor unions/economists and others. The idea is great. But this is not the Federal reserve counting money. This is a commission on counting people. The closest this can come to is Congress will get recommendations from this commission and vote on similar legislation. Money and Immigration are totally different.