NATIONAL ID CARD PROPOSAL BECOMES IMMIGRATION REFORM LIGHTNING ROD

Readers have already been discussing this subject in the comments. The usual positions on immigration won't necessarily define how people feel about a proposal to issue a national identification card to all authorized to work in the US. On the one hand, the immigration "law and order" types love the idea of a fool proof way go guarantee that all workers are legal. On the other side, civil liberties advocates are horrified by the "Big Brother" implications. Interestingly, the proposal is coming from liberal Democratic Senator Charles Schumer. And it's the privacy hawks in the GOP who are most likely going to try to strip out the proposal from an immigration reform bill. Here's an opinion piece on Foxnews.com explaining (presumably to conservatives) why they should oppose the concept. 

Comments

[Jim]

It finally landed on mass media. Home-grown terrorists growing in America. Then naturally-born US Citizen al-Awlaki (remember him?) calling for Jihad against America. The next terrorist act would be within the US and probably to be executed by a home-grown terrorist who is a US Citizen and not the likes of the Xmas day bomber.

Just more grounds for a national ID.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_american_jihadists#mwpphu-container

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/17/al.awlaki.message/index.html?hpt=T2

[Paul Williamson]

Sam: "Republicans dont want any progress on any issue whether its healthcare or immigration."

Depends on how you view progress. As a conservative I'd like to see barriers to competition between health insurance companies eliminated, allowing for true interstate commerce in that industry. Tort reform is needed so MDs do not feel they have to perform expensive diagnostic procedures to cover their backsides.

[USC]

The NY Times has an article today that reinforces the point that National IDs are a really, really bad thing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/opinion/13herbert.html

From the cite:

"The stops themselves are an outrage and a continuing affront to black and Hispanic New Yorkers, who are the ones most frequently singled-out by the police for this public humiliation."

"This is not a small problem. The cops are making more than a half-million of these stops every year. A vast majority of the people targeted — close to 90 percent — are completely innocent. They are not arrested. They are not given a summons. After enduring a mortifying public encounter with the police — which frequently requires the targets to sprawl face down on the sidewalk or spread themselves against a wall or over the hood of a car to be searched — they are sent on their way."

"What they’ve left behind, however, if they’ve shown their identification to the cops or answered any questions, is a permanent record of the encounter, which is promptly entered into the department’s staggeringly huge computerized files. Why the Police Department should be keeping files on innocent people is a question with no legitimate answer."

"The reasons given by the cops for deciding which unfortunate New Yorkers will be stopped are beyond bogus. A “furtive movement” is the most popular. Walking down the street in broad daylight qualifies. And then there is always the bulge in the pocket. A cellphone, maybe. Or an iPod."

The truth — and many police officers will tell you this privately — is that the stops are often made first and the justification is dreamed up later.

[Jim]

Advocates also have another reason to push for a national ID and that is the growth of home-grown terrorists and this can potentially be a more compelling reason to enforce it rather than just work authorization purposes.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/11/new.jersey.yemen.terror/index.html

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/201516.php

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704131404575118103199708576.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100310/pl_afp/usattackscourteuropeasia

[USC]

No second Republican, no CIR:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/10/immigration-reform-effort-emerges-new-senate/

I must admit that Graham has been courageous in being the only Republican in supporting this effort. His support is especially noteworthy if one remembers that he and then Senator Obama were told to take it outside by Senator Kennedy during CIR2007. Obama and Graham then proceeded to go at it mano a mano!!

[Jack]

'Atleast under republicans, we had easier time. With democrats in power, everthing is getting worse by the day (or should I say memos). They are making life hell for legal immigrants.'

Adi, could you briefly explain the differences you're referring to?

[Sid]

"Yeah but young voters more often than not do not vote, therefore they have less influence in elections..."

When times are good, they will not vote but we don't live in those times anymore. Unemployment among under-30 voters is at a record high. They will respond to anti-war/pro-education idealist candidates like they did in the last presidential election. If they are disillusioned now, it is because Obama is playing the Washington insider's game in the name of getting things done. Strategists talk about winning the election by moving to the center but pragmatism doesn't mobilize the ground troops. Centrists don't knock on doors to get the votes out - liberals and conservatives do.

[Another Voice]

"On social issues, younger voters are increasingly liberal but when economic issues are at the forefront, elections are not fought on social issues."

Yeah but young voters more often than not do not vote, therefore they have less influence in elections...

[Sid]

George,

I'm not talking about the current situation. I'm talking about long term trends. There was a reason why an uncharismatic person like Ron Paul was able to gain some traction in the Republican primaries. His anti-war, anti-entitlement programs stance resonated strongly with idealistic younger voters. The younger voters have been disproportionately affected in this recession compared to middle-aged and older voters and they realize that the US government spends a disproportionate amount of resources on Social Security, Medicare and Defense compared to education and research. The party that seizes the initiative by cutting these programs will gain favor with younger voters. In the short term, that party will be decimated in the elections because older voters will simply revolt against any cuts in entitlement programs. It's a tricky balancing act. On social issues, younger voters are increasingly liberal but when economic issues are at the forefront, elections are not fought on social issues.

[George Chell]

For a good treatise of how the Hispanics left the GOP due to the latter's worship of white skin color (paganism as practised by Arizona GOP especially JD Hayworth is a prime example) instead of finding Judeo-Christian commonality with the Hispanics, kindly read this article by Alan Abramowitz....

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/aia2010031101/

[Greg Siskind]

Sid - We can argue over your response, but you're missing the point. Hispanics PERCEIVE that they have been grossly mistreated by the GOP and that is why they shifted their allegiances dramatically over the last two election cycles (much more so than the general public's shift to the Dems). So obviously the GOP has an image problem with Hispanics and that is having electoral consequences. Voters tend to get in to a habit of supporting one party or the other and people often vote the same way as their parents and peers. So it can take generations to undo the damage when a party forces a dramatic shift in voting patterns.

[Sam]

" I am not even Latino and I find such slurs odious, imagine how Latinos must feel! "

Being treated fairly and with respect mean a lot for lot of people and they trump things such as economy.

[Another Voice]

"Greg, with all due respect, the treatment of Hispanics is nowhere comparable to what African Americans had to go through."

That still does not excuse the behavior....

"Demographic trends will favor Democrats if social issues matter more. When it comes to economic issues, a generational war is brewing between Seniors and younger workers, and Democrats may have to finally take a hit for creating fiscally unsustainable entitlement programs."

There are other issues for republicans to contend with like the 2 wars on the credit card, the unpaid tax cuts and the unpaid entitlement programs they have created!!! Plenty of blame to go around but no real solutions.... we need to hit the play and stay off the Pause.

[George Chell]

No Sid. Under the current situation, Dems will do well if the economy and employment improves.

[Sid]

Greg, with all due respect, the treatment of Hispanics is nowhere comparable to what African Americans had to go through. Demographic trends will favor Democrats if social issues matter more. When it comes to economic issues, a generational war is brewing between Seniors and younger workers, and Democrats may have to finally take a hit for creating fiscally unsustainable entitlement programs. I don't know how it'll all play out in the next 10-20 years because there are many factors. I wouldn't advise the Democrats to start counting their chicken if they continue to fight amongst themselves and push unpopular bills.

[AJ]

Will this not run into religious opposition? When a similar id was recently proposed in India, there was a protest by some Christian cleric about how this should not be done because of something in the Bible against it. I'd imagine similar dynamics would operate on a larger scale here in opposition to the id.

[USC]

"Yeah right. Latinos are a bunch of sheep that'll keep voting for Democrats"

If a numerous card carrying Republicans refer to you as cans/spics you are unlikely to ever get them to vote for you. I am not even Latino and I find such slurs odious, imagine how Latinos must feel!

[George Chell]

I think at the minimum a national ID card should be an option. At present no one has that option and if you are on vacation and you get mugged and loose your ID, you cannot get back home.

[Greg Siskind]

Sid - I'd only point you to the historical voting patterns of another minority - African Americans. For generations, African Americans voted for the GOP. It was, after all, the party of Lincoln and Republicans pushed hard for many civil rights measures. The GOP eventually embarked on a Southern strategy and Dixiecrats defected to the Republicans en masse. Eventually, the GOP became the party seen as opposing civil rights and African Americans moved solidly to the Democratic ranks and routinely get more than 90% of the black vote. That shift has not shown any signs of abating after many decades. The GOP is doing the same thing with a new constituency. The sharper GOP strategists have figured out that this is political suicide. If they can't read polls, then just look at the demographic trends - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100310/ap_on_go_ot/us_white_minority

[Sid]

"If it goes thru, Dems will lock in a generation of latino voters."

Yeah right. Latinos are a bunch of sheep that'll keep voting for Democrats even if the unemployment rates stays high.

[Sam]

"More Mr. "No" from republicans with any excuse.... I recall the Rudy Giulliani was a proponent of this type of ID when he was running and the republicans were for it!!! Now that the dems are proposing the same thing its a government take over.... the will use this issue or any other to drive it as wedge to derail immigration and any other problems we have to solve."

Exactly, They will do and say anything and everything to derail Obamas agenda. They want to see Mr. Obama fail period.

But I think , having a debate about immigration (whether a bill goes thru or not ) is good politics for Dems. If it goes thru, Dems will lock in a generation of latino voters. If it does not go thru , the debate will expose republicans for what they are .

[Another Voice]

More Mr. "No" from republicans with any excuse.... I recall the Rudy Giulliani was a proponent of this type of ID when he was running and the republicans were for it!!! Now that the dems are proposing the same thing its a government take over.... the will use this issue or any other to drive it as wedge to derail immigration and any other problems we have to solve.

[Adi]

'ID or no ID want to see some positive development. Schumer has been sitting on this from last year. Waiting to see a draft legislation or blueprint. Maybe the Senate should hand over their clout to the House. The House was able to pass HCR, climate bill & introduce CIR."
No kidding. All this drama always results in nothing, as we have witnessed since so many years. Atleast under republicans, we had easier time. With democrats in power, everthing is getting worse by the day (or should I say memos). They are making life hell for legal immigrants.

[beppe]

Interesting article from a conservative side:
http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/5224-national-id-will-be-a-part-of-immigration-reform

[beppe]

Hi Greg, please explain to me. We got a bill of CIR?

[My 2 cents]

ID or no ID want to see some positive development. Schumer has been sitting on this from last year. Waiting to see a draft legislation or blueprint. Maybe the Senate should hand over their clout to the House. The House was able to pass HCR, climate bill & introduce CIR.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

That's the kind of controversial proposal that draws a lot of attention, but at the end will be happily crossed out so the bill moves forward. Now, if the reforms goes through, and someone on the right starts whining again about lack of enforcement (and it will happen), Dems can always poit out that that very someone did not want the enforceable ID provision in the bill. Nice setup, Schumer!

[Sam]

Republicans dont want any progress on any issue whether its healthcare or immigration.

[Jim]

After skimming the comments page on the opinion piece. I could say that roughly the 'for' and 'against' the national ID are pretty even.

[Jim]

Lou Dobbs/Bill O-Reilly on national ID:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4096623/lou-dobbs-on-illegal-immigration/?playlist_id=87249