Grassley Removes Hold on 3012

Many readers already know from the comments that Senator Grassley has removed his hold on HR 3012, the bill that would remove per country quotas in family and employment-based green card cases. I've stated my support for this bill simply because I don't think it is good policy to disciminate against qualified applicants based on their nationality.

I've also noted that I think the deal struck to get Grassley's support is deeply problematic. In short, the Grassley amendment to 3012 allows the Labor Department to change the way it investigates and audits H-1B employers. Under current law, the Labor Department approves Labor Condition Applications that are correct on their face rather than first investigating the underlying facts. That does not stop the Labor Department from investigating afterwards, though it is a complaint driven process so it will normally not investigate unless someone tells the agency that misprepresentations and violations are happening.

The Grassley language would allow the Labor Department to hold up the approval of an LCA while it audits/investigates in cases where the employer has more than 100 employees with more than 15% working on an H-1B (typically, staffing companies, but sometimes other types of employers). And it could do the same if the DOL determines that there are “clear indicators of fraud or misrepresentation of material fact, or is obviously inaccurate.” If the DOL chooses to audit, an employer has no recourse to go to a judge to review the DOL decision to audit (such as if the employer does not meet the size/H-1B dependency threshhold).

The objections of many to the new DOL authority are not about whether the DOL should be able to investigate fraud. I don't think any reasonable people would say that oversight is bad. But there are problems that I can envision happening. First, if the DOL is just plain wrong and the company is completely innocent, they are effectively still going to be punished. You need an approved LCA in order to file the H-1B petition and claim a number under the H-1B cap. If the LCA is held up due to an audit or investigation and the employer is cleared of any wrongdoing, the H-1B cap is still likely to get hit and the worker won't be able to join the company.

Another problem is how you define "fraud". Now there's how you and I think about fraud and what it means. And then the government's view. You and I think fraud means the employer is knowingly trying to mislead the government to procure a benefit. But then there is what we've seen in practice - a presumption that small employers are likely fraudsters. Don't believe me. Here's the link to the document USCIS tried to keep secret that was leaked and says exactly that.

And the one way to prevent DOL from abusing this new authority to effectively shut an employer out of using the H-1B process even without proving anything - access to the courts - is removed.

I've drawn the fire of many because I have stated that I can't support HR 3012 with the Grassley language. But I also think the Grassley language can be tweaked to accomplish the goal of making it easier for the Labor Department to go after fraud without punishing innocent employers. First, you can keep the current process of approving facially correct LCAs but have the Labor Department investigate AFTER the LCA is approved. That way, employers could still proceed with their H-1B filings and if the DOL finds fraud, it can still revoke the H-1Bs, impose fines, debar the employer, etc. And you don't need to make the process complaint-driven, thus allowing the DOL to investigate based on the same factors as in the Grassley language.

Second, we should add language to the Immigration and Nationality Act prohibiting federal agencies from considering being a small business a fraud indicator. Employers would still need to demonstrate that they can meet the H-1B requirements, but merely being small won't be enough to trigger a fraud investigation.

I wouldn't mind leaving the judicial review language in place if the audit process happens post-LCA approval instead of pre-LCA approval. That's because innocent employers would not suffer the same significant level of harm merely because they're selected for investigration.

And if we're making changes to the bill, I'd also suggest offering something to the many people who are worried that the bill will severely affect them if there's a substantial roll back in worldwide priority dates when the bill takes effect. There is a relatively fast phase in period for the bill that can be slowed down so that those currently in line are not hurt as much. I think such a change would smooth over a lot of the ruffled feathers that are evident just from looking at the discussions in the comments section of this blog.

My bet is that Senator Grassley would not see these changes as a major concession since it still gives the Labor Department significant new authority to investigate fraud. Unless, of course, his real goal is to just make the H-1B program a lot harder to use regardless of whether the employer is following the rules.

Comments

[WorldWideEB3]

Well we can put this thread to bed until at least September. Senate adjourned for the summer recess without taking up HR3012.

[Limbo]

You mean McCain's canned email response? LOL, I got that exact same email 6 months ago. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[ITS ON!!]

RELIABLE SOURCES ARE SAYING THAT 3012 IS UP IN THE SENATE ANYTIME NOW!!!

[Sa]

"Reid could be out of a job though after the elections which would solve that problem."

If Reid is out of job after elections and get into minority leader clothes , he will hold all the immigration bills for Dream / amnesty. They will just repeat what senate Republicans have been doing since 2008 . They will simply filibuster all the bills that they do not like.

[Limbo]

I definitely do not agree that a STEM-DV swap bill is impossible. For all the desperate cries we hear about one man holding the system hostage, if a bill has more than tepid support, a hold can easily be overcome. I believe a stem-for-DV swap bill could enter the senate with enough momentum to overcome any holds.

It's the marginal bills, like HR3012, that are subject to hijacking and endless negotiations and holds, and that's the way the system is intended to work.

One little fly in the ointment is the Hispanic lobby. There would have to be something in the STEM-DV swap for them. Reid could be the holdup because he has said that he won't bring any immigration bills to the floor that don't have DREAM. Admittedly that is a bit of a problem for a STEM bill. Reid could be out of a job though after the elections which would solve that problem.

[Amused]

Also, dear Limbo, repetition is really important to for some people's understanding. Try reading again and you will see :-)

[Amused]

Thanks Limbo. Neither does brevity when it tries to cover for nothing to say. Short enough for you?

[Limbo]

@amused

Longwindedness and repetition do not an argument make

[Amused]

LNLW: We have heard this record forever It's geting old. Talk is cheap. Big loud posts about how "no one" will oppose the STEM bill, and how "even Grassley" can't have problems with it are frankly laughable and show the naiveté of the so called web Gurus. You are on record opposing practically everything and everyone at some point or the other because it/they does not advocate for the undocumented. Laudable ideas for sure, but poor understanding of the real world let alone realpolitik. If you have so much to contribute then why has no STEM, DREAM or other bill passed till today (at least since about 2004). Sorry, stupid question. Why has any one EB measure never even cleared committee? Why have these well meaning changes being advocated to 3012 not been easily made since "non one can have a problem with them"? I doubt IV would oppose simple fixes like that, in fact I know they don't. But real life is tough, when you leave your keyboard and step up to DC! Max and his ilk can whine all they want but the fact is that 3012 benefits Indian and Chinese in EB and Philippines and Mexicans in FB so it's pro immigrant for a large part of the backlog. Sure, EB2 ROW won't just be able to waltz in and get a GC on demand. But maybe they will begin to understand what the waiting is about, finally. Maybe they will even understand what damage they have done in the long term by trying to team up with Numbers USA, FAIR, Grassley and Steve King to stop 3012. They encouraged Grassley's hold, called and badgered his staff and now they are complaining about the amendment? Chutzpah anyone? ROW folks had every chance to be part of this process for the last many years. I have personally witnessed their apathy and unwillingness to do enough. The fact is that country quotas a a vestige of a discriminatory past and need to be dumped. Their selfish opposition of IV simply because country quotas was one part of the agenda is well known to everyone. Well, the chickens are home to roost. Once upon a time LNLW had the courage to oppose EB country quotas. But I guess the effort was too much. You can love or hate IV. You can agree or disagree with them. All that is fair enough. You can't change the fact though that they are the only ones actually working on the Hill for change with enough clout to move things along. Whatever happens now, that will remain. It will be up to ROW to swallow their egos and work with IV for STEM and other reform that we all agree on or continue to wallow in self righteous failure. I shall happily put myself on the line and predict that STEM will go nowhere this year (sadly). will also remind you that the wise LNLW predicted that EB2I would be current by now. In October ROW will be back current, where they were, and EB2IC and EB3IC will be "back" too...literally so...unless 3012 passes. Thankfully I no longer have a personal stake, but I will fight to get rid of country quotas, and when the time is right, for STEM and other reform as well. But not on the forum, in real life! I'll leave the web support to JoeF :-)

[George Chell]

If brilliant home-grown rare American science talent behaves like this, we may really need to get the STEM approved and approved very soon......

http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-suspect-brilliant-science-student-230349806.html

[Max]

@Amused

A little correction. HR3012 is "indian pro-immigration" Bill. For everybody else - it's an anti-immigration Bill.

[Sa]

@Amused ,

ROFL .

[Legal and no longer waiting]

Amused, well, maybe if people were willing to listen to those "gurus from forums" (and I hear they mostly agree on the principles, regardless of whether they come from ROW or India) and united for common goals, the results would have been slightly different. The regular unwashed masses exist everywhere, but they can only be effective in a positive way if they are steared by thoughtful leadership. If, however, they are left simmer in their own bitterness for too long, much worse things happen. That's just simple lessons from a few hundred years of class warfare.

[George Chell]

Greg:

I think this post has outlived its usefulness!

[Amused]

The STEM bill will go nowhere. Dems in both houses will vote against it since it provides nothing on the family side. Lamar Smith on that other hand will pointedly not compromise on that. Grassley will not let it go anywhere without a substantial amendment. But for those in la-la land here, another bill to drool about. Lots of armchair warriors here who can pretend to "do their utmost" and increase their post count. If you know anything about immigration politics in DC, you should know that this STEM bill is posturing by Lamar Smith right now. The Grassley amendment to 3012 is the absolute minimum price that any pro immigrant bill will pay, if it gets as far as the Senate. But of course, without the oversight it's Indian companies and fraud, with the amendment it's all about the poor abused H1s. Either way ROW wants it's cake! Meanwhile the circus here continues. The Gurus from the forums "who advise thousands of people" shall lead us to light...one day :-)

[Sa]

@JC ,

I am not sure why this person is so thin skinned. I don't think I said anything that is so objectionable.

[JC]

@JoeF: "@Sa: You show your real colors now.Shame on you. You are a disgusting troll.Get lost."

Lately, all we see is you trying to give back of your hand to people whose opinion you don't like or do not understand. Very recently, I remember, you trying to do the same to one of my postings (where I did not correctly understand the implications of EAD to undocumented).

To me your behavior appears to be of the same level as the one you are trying to slight.

[JoeF]

@Sa: You show your real colors now.
Shame on you. You are a disgusting troll.
Get lost.

[Nurse Waiting]

"They don't even mention immigration as an issue on their website."

They already said they will pass CIR in first 100 days of office. I know I know they said it last time too and they didn't even with majority in both houses. But gg this time will be different, wink wink. Then there is scare of republicans deporting everybody which will not be present during Obama Please forget record numbers of deportations, our actions never match our words anyhow.

[gg]

País De Inmigrantes - Romney's son featured in Spanish ad - Permanent Immigration Solution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=spd2NhjkOo0

[gg]

@Ryder "I agree, but i wouldn't consider these Bills ( 3012 and STEM) to be traditional Immigration bills since they're not adding any numbers. And by passing them congress can act like they've actually done something ( even though its just shifting numbers) and keep their paychecks from the corporates flowing. Infact 3012 is not even opposed by NumbersUSA, not sure about STEM."

Yes these are all common sense solutions. We can hope they will see light some day. Why should NumbersUSA oppose 3012. I/C folks have already made down payments for the hip replacement of ten of thousands of anti immigrant folks. I am also very disappointed with ObamaBiden re-election team. They don't even mention immigration as an issue on their website.

http://www.barackobama.com

[Ryder]

@gg

I agree, but i wouldn't consider these Bills ( 3012 and STEM) to be traditional Immigration bills since they're not adding any numbers. And by passing them congress can act like they've actually done something ( even though its just shifting numbers) and keep their paychecks from the corporates flowing. Infact 3012 is not even opposed by NumbersUSA, not sure about STEM.

[gg]

@Ryder - As Greg suggested in one of his responses it is foolish to assume any immigration bill to pass in the current political environment. Thats why i am using the "set to sail" terminology because it can disappear any moment from the radar .. ha ha.

[Sa]

"
3012 IN LIMBO? how reliable is that columnists source? if it all, or is he just speculating?
"

Patrick Thibodeau is known for his anti India agenda. His racist columns give enough fodder to other India haters. If 3012 chances are bleak , STEM bill is DOA in the Senate. Mr. Grassley will never agree for any such bill.

[Ryder]

3012 IN LIMBO? how reliable is that columnists source? if it all, or is he just speculating?

[gg]

@limbo - Dark days ahead for freeloaders as STEM is set to sail through (different from smooth sail :) ). I know many students applied for this lottery and got their green cards. I hope STEM covers enough disciplines so student don't get hurt. But those who are not covered by STEM no worries. Playboy route qualifies for genius visa. Well there is no cap for geniuses at Playboy and USCIS for starters ..

http://www.christianpost.com/news/shera-bechard-gets-genius-visa-playboy-playmate-immigrates-to-us-77523/

[George Chell]

"They also have a weired superiority complex over people from 3rd world countries regardless of their educational background."

Is that why they are sneaking into non-white countries such as Singapore, Hong Kong and Malaysia and even South Korea? If they are superior, why dont they stay in their own country and worship the whiteness like Marine Le Pen and others do?

"Many european countries are right now throwing out immigrants but the people from the same countries don't mind standing in line before the US consulate or apply for diversity visa lottery."

It is called one way street. Most white people and many Asians particularly the Singaporeans are guilty of this crime. You talk to Aussies, whose economy is doing very well...they dont have any problem sitting on fat salaries in Singapore and complaining about Filipina maids taking off after American or Aussie men, but they dont like to reciprocate...they dont like Asians coming to their countries. For greed, Singaporeans take the cake. 80% of the Singaporeans want to work abroad, but a staggering 70% of these dont like foreigners working in Singapore, particularly foreign workers from China, Taiwan and Hong Kong...and this is a country with a 2% unemployment rate. The Brits are among the worst with regard to this attitude...and they were bad when the unemployment rate was 2%. No one knows how many...there are many Brit expats who are living in Dubai and even Singapore who finance the anti-non-white British National Party...and this while living in non-white countries. If that is not greed, please tell me what is.

[Limbo]

Sure looks like big business has kicked IV and HR3012 to the curb and is moving on to STEM which is far less problematic:

"
Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, may be getting ready to support legislation to grant green cards to holders of advanced degrees in the so-called STEM fields.

Smith, the gatekeeper on immigration bills in the House, is being urged to take action by a broad coalition of groups, including some of the largest technology companies -- Apple, Hewlett-Packard, IBM and Microsoft, as well as the IEEE-USA.
.
.
.
Elimination of per-country caps was widely seen as having a chance at passage this year. But the proposal drew opposition from the private sector because of Grassley's changes, and its passage is now in doubt. "

Please see the entire story here:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9229244/Tech_giants_urge_passage_of_STEM_green_card_bill_

[gg]

@George Chell, The problem is 60% of the European economy is in the sewer and people of all kinds those with merit and those without want to sneak into the US. Thats the reality. Those without education just overstay tourist visas.. and those with some education want to have their green cards overnight. They also have a weired superiority complex over people from 3rd world countries regardless of their educational background. Many european countries are right now throwing out immigrants but the people from the same countries don't mind standing in line before the US consulate or apply for diversity visa lottery.

[WorldWideEB]

@George Chell

"Best qualified should get the work permit, end of story! "

If you think the current system, with or with HR3012, guarantees this you are completely out of touch with reality.

Now a STEM bill that fast tracks the genuine best and brightest with verifiable American credentials would take us much closer to getting the best qualified, anything else if like relieving ourselves into the wind.

[George Chell]

Best qualified should get the work permit, end of story! Unfortunately what many folks argue here is not very different from white Americans trying to maintain their privileges-you have to hire an American eventhough he or she may be of poorer quality than the foreigner, ie., 2.1/4.0 GPA white American should be hired over a 4.0/4.0 foreigner- or for that matter minorities demanding Affirmative Action. Proves once again that America is not a meritocracy. In a number of fields you can get a job without being qualified if you know someone. FYI the US Labor, Ag and Interior Departments are full of these characters. The only reason they hire the qualified folks in engineering and sciences is because corporations and individuals doing the hiring dont want to get sued.

[MO]

After reading the comments, it is quite evident that we live in individualistic society where something not helping one group is always wrong. I have been waiting for past 10 yrs already but did not know the level of hatred among the groups.
Hope immigration system is reformed some day and genuine and eligible folks should be treated fairly.

[Sa]

"I think the comments by Sa speak for themselves."

Following is what Joe wants to defend

"Pathetic roaches like you should be sent back after their term of slavery is over here."

[Sole]

Well i dont think EB ROW was helping anyone either, no ones a Saint. It comes down to what the US Govt decides, its their prerogative. Permanent Residency is a privilege not a right

Eitherways EB Visa's are Employment Based, Not Diversity Based. Family and Diversity are two different category of Visa's with inbuilt caps. So i dont understand the ruckus. Since there is no Diversity/country quota in work visa's why should there be one in Work based Green Cards?

Having said that I do feel for some of the EB folks whose wait would suddenly double up, not fair to them, they should have had a cut-off PD.

Same time i admonish some of the racist and off the cuff remarks on here. Everyone is stressed out, lets maintain civility. And lastly thank Greg for allowing people to comment on here, despite some of the nastiness

[JoeF]

I think the comments by Sa speak for themselves.
Some people help others, and some people screw others over.

[WorldWideEB]

@Greg

Sadly this is what HR3012 has reduced the EB immigrant community to.

[Greg]

I'm going to lock comments on this post shortly unless people have something genuinely new or helpful to add to the conversation.

[Sa]

"The problem with them is, that they've been sleeping all this while, they suddenly wake up and cry hoarse. "

Existing system is working pretty good for them and they don't want any changes in the system that helps the most backlogged categories.

[Sa]

"Sa, sorry, but you opened this can of worms yourself by asking ROW what they have done for EB3 Indians. This is exactly the case where the same question applies to you. What have YOU done for OTHERS? Other than trying to take their visas away, of course."

ROW does not have to do anything for Indians , you are the one been crying about Indians and IV that they just work for Indians etc.

Show me an organization that works for all EB Immigrants as per your definition started by ROW and run by ROW. I am more than happy to contribute in whatever way I can.

People from EB ROW are pretty inept in organizing.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

Sa, sorry, but you opened this can of worms yourself by asking ROW what they have done for EB3 Indians. This is exactly the case where the same question applies to you. What have YOU done for OTHERS? Other than trying to take their visas away, of course.

[Rale]

Most ROW people dont even know enough about Immigration like evident in emi's post etc.
The problem with them is, that they've been sleeping all this while, they suddenly wake up and cry hoarse.
Eitherways, why all this crying over country cap removal?? after all this visa is called EMPLOYMENT BASED immigration, not DIVERSITY BASED immigration, they have a lottery for that with limitations on over-represented countries.
Employment based immigration means, the skilled immigrants who EMPLOYERS prefer, irrespective of country origin. Why is it so difficult for the ROW people to understand?

[Sa]

"You, on the other hand, have done NOTHING to help other immigrants. I honestly think you should be ashamed to ask other people what they have done to help you."

One more thing , After seeing the kind of remarks here online , I would advise any Indian who wants to work with these people only after they make sure that their safety is not compromised anywhere .

[Sa]

"You, on the other hand, have done NOTHING to help other immigrants. I honestly think you should be ashamed to ask other people what they have done to help you. "

PERSONAL ATTACK ALERT :) I am not asking for help from the racist people that hate me for my skin color or where I come from. I am just pointing out that ROW people are very inept in organizing , all they do is throw mud at IV and post racist comments at Indians.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

Sa, JoeF has give thousands of immigrants, majority of them Indian, sound advice on how to improve their chances on getting a green card.

You, on the other hand, have done NOTHING to help other immigrants. I honestly think you should be ashamed to ask other people what they have done to help you.

[SAM]

What IV is doing helps all the immigrants by leveling the playing field first. It eliminates preferential quotas for white people from Europe

Can you do that? Who is sitting in Senate and Congress? Most of their ancestors were Europe in past. Wait and see.

[Sa]

"You should also understand that they are in reaction to what IV is proposing and defending. "

Every hate group has some excuse.

[Amateurs stay away]

"they cant write in english"

Haha, nice, pot calling the kettle black. This blog is NOT a (sic) hr3012 Blog, its a blog run by a very esteemed Immigration Lawyer, someone whose website and work had helped me clarify the immigration muddle, when i was a novice and still in school. I have since followed the issues he brings forth. The activist in me likes what he writes.

You need to keep your ugly supremacist attitude to yourself. Enjoy your decade long wait.

[Sa]

"

JoF has been consulting immigrants for many years about the EB laws on one famous law firm forum. I have done some work for IV back when it was for all EB immigration.

Sa, if you can't see it, it does not mean it does not exist.
"

Posting on Immigration forums is equal to organizing :) LMAO :)

[Sa]

"

So, Sa, what have YOU done to improve immigration for everyone (or any group other than your own)?
"

What IV is doing helps all the immigrants by leveling the playing field first. It eliminates preferential quotas for white people from Europe. What is the organization that is working for EB immigration improvement other than IV? Is there is anyone organizing a letter campaign ? forget about lobbying on the hill. ROW people are very inept in organizing anything forget about a lobbying campaign.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

So, Sa, what have YOU done to improve immigration for everyone (or any group other than your own)?

[Legal and no longer waiting]

JoF has been consulting immigrants for many years about the EB laws on one famous law firm forum. I have done some work for IV back when it was for all EB immigration.

Sa, if you can't see it, it does not mean it does not exist.

[Sa]

"Sa, I have not defended the rasist comments, and they are undoubtedly wrong. You should also understand that they are in reaction to what IV is proposing and defending. The goal of good leadership is, generally, to bring the best in people and unite them around a worthy goal. You can look it up under M.L. King, Gandhi, Mandela. IV is doing the opposite - it's bringing out the VERY WORST in other immigrants who care about EB immigration. Job well done."

What have you people (who oppose 3012 ) done to bring relief to the people who are suffering the most or EB3 in general. I don't see a single effort from ROW people.

[Greg]

Let this be a warning to readers who post comments. I have three basic rules -

1. No personal attacks against others posting here.
2. No profanity
3. No lawyer bashing

If you can't abide by these rules, it's a pretty easy thing to set up your own blog.

The Management

[Legal and no longer waiting]

Sa, I have not defended the rasist comments, and they are undoubtedly wrong. You should also understand that they are in reaction to what IV is proposing and defending. The goal of good leadership is, generally, to bring the best in people and unite them around a worthy goal. You can look it up under M.L. King, Gandhi, Mandela. IV is doing the opposite - it's bringing out the VERY WORST in other immigrants who care about EB immigration. Job well done.

[Sa]

"It is really sad that this whole thing brought otherwise good people to the very lowest common denominator. Thanks, HR3012! Great leadership, IV!"

Great logic , Someone from ROW makes a racist comment and its the fault of IV leadership. What was ROW doing all these days.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

"Err no bangalore basement, have a degree from an Ivy League, got my Greencard without having to file an LCA as per the statute of my Visa category. I'm sure your company had to fake reject a lot of American citizen for a fraudulent LCA based Perm application for some third rate EB category or whatever crap you turds need to get done, you should be audited."

And that's how you decided to easte your Ivy league degree - to engage into mud throwing with people who... well, should know better than behave that way, too.

It is really sad that this whole thing brought otherwise good people to the very lowest common denominator. Thanks, HR3012! Great leadership, IV!

[Sa]

"Pathetic roaches like you should be sent back after their term of slavery is over here."

Looks like this is the standard of discussion here. Racists have found new home on this blog.

[emi]

@Amateurs stay away

Oh yeah, Ivy league and EB1..ok. You convinced me.
This is what all Indians say. Meanwhile they can't write in English as evident from your posts. You got a gc without LC? So what are you doing on a blog for HR3012?
Pathetic roaches like you should be sent back after their term of slavery is over here.

[WorldWideEB]

@gg

If raising the caps without increasing the numbers is useless, why bother bother raising the FB cap to 15%? And how much worse is it to remove caps in EB without increasing the overall numbers?

Raising or removing the caps without increasing the supply of numbers IS USELESS IN REDUCING THE OVERALL BACKLOG. Glad you are coming to realize that.

[Nurse Waiting]

"Beginning of the end of outsourcing as we know - GM listens to Obama's election campaign anti outsourcing message"

I am still waiting for the jobs that left shores of US 30yrs back, to come back from China. There are plenty of midwest states and their citizens waiting for them too. Heck even late Jobs, when asked by Obama on bringing jobs back, answered negative.

Government motors (GM) is doing nothing but trying to appease its biggest shareholder, for whom profitability is not primary concern. Once this shareholder leaves and real shareholders come, this CIO will be replaced by someone who can save some money. Stopping outsourcing is nothing but a dream, just like "fixing" wall street is a dream. Its best to stop day dreaming and start working on finding alternatives.

[Legal and no longer waiting]

gg, if caps need to be done away with, then why does 3012 impose new cups? Oh, wait, people only dislike the caps when those don't go their personal way.

[gg]

One more reason why country wide quotas should go immediately. No special treatment for countries especially those who don't like America.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/16/12579414-in-pakistans-largest-city-old-glory-is-flammable-and-profitable?lite

[Amateurs stay away]

@ Emi

Err no bangalore basement, have a degree from an Ivy League, got my Greencard without having to file an LCA as per the statute of my Visa category. I'm sure your company had to fake reject a lot of American citizen for a fraudulent LCA based Perm application for some third rate EB category or whatever crap you turds need to get done, you should be audited.

LOL @ "legally claim numbers". As per your "theory" its a zero sum increase from whats been happening now. Most people get it, you dont, not my problem.

Keep your supremacist ideals to websites that idolize them. This is forum for mature folks.

[emi]

@ Trident

You won't lessen the cap for others because this is no cumulative number, meaning that adding all cap numbers does not make 100% or 140K visas. The cap is a limit above which you can go.

@Amateurs stay away

You are obviously one of the "brightest" with 3 year degree from Bangalore basement. Raising the cap number will allow oversubscribed countries to "legally" claim more numbers. They are doing the same at the moment through the spillovers. Adding the DV numbers is actually adding number to employment based visa numbers since their limit is 140K. This is great solution but so is the recapturing of lost numbers from previous years.
However, what you argued about that cap increase can't happen without number increase is false and shows you don't understand the principle. If HR 3012 passes, the cap limit for India will be 90% without increase of the visa numbers. get a US or European degree and then engage in conversations of this sort.

[Trident]

Raising country caps is a waste of time if no new numbers are introduced, or recaptured or re-distributed.

Its 7% for all countries now, if you increase the cap for a few countries would you lessen for a few? since numbers are the same.

[Amateurs stay away]

Emi obviously doesn't know cr@p so no use trying to argue with that "moron", math fail.

I agree with worldwideEB, getting rid of DV and moving those numbers to EB makes sense, since you can RAISE the numbers without actually adding new numbers.

[WorldWideEB]

"Many country caps—or limits on immigrants from specific countries—are so low, that America is losing some of the best and brightest to our international competitors. Mitt Romney will work with Congress to raise the country caps."

Raise caps and raid DV numbers. Not rocket science. No increase in the number of people getting green cards.

[emi]

yes exactly. Increase the caps because certain countries are having too many people but too low of a cap. You can do that without increasing the actual visa numbers. Why people who have no idea and are ignorant participate in arguments they don't get?

Go study moron and learn what the law says and what is being proposed.

[Amateurs stay away]

"At the same time, we have set the caps on high-skill visas so low that, for some countries, an entire year’s quota has been filled in an hour. Mitt Romney will ask Congress to raise the caps on visas for highly skilled immigrants."

increase the cap without increasing the numbers?? nice Romneys a magician, he can produce Greencards out of thin air ROFL

What ignorance, newbies need to get it straight.

[emi]

Newbie? You are the newbie. Read better. Not increasing the numbers but increasing the cap. these are two different things. God the ignorance.

[Best of luck]

Haha

You're all such newbies, thinking that Congress will EVER pass a bill that INCREASES greencard numbers now, maybe two years into the new presidents term. Now never, increasing numbers has been shot down every time, pre recession and whenever

[emi]

http://www.mittromney.com/news/press/2012/06/mitt-romneys-strategy-bipartisan-long-term-immigration-reform

Yep, here it is. Country caps but higher. Very well Mitt.

[emi]

@WorldWideEB

Do you have a link for Romney's ideas about the caps? If he has explicitly said that then you can bet a larger group from the Republican Part thinks so. That means the question has been discussed and if the candidate of the Republicans has definite ideas, this bill goes nowhere until the new election.

[WorldWideEB]

I don't think HR3012 is dead in the long term at all, and even if it is, the idea of cap removal has legs. Romney has said he prefers to raise caps rather than abolish, and probably 50-50 chance he will be prez within 6 months. One way or the other, EB3 India will get relief, but it has to be done in the right way, not in a hasty irresponsible way. I don't have a crystal ball, but I think some kind of STEM/Cap bill will pass early in the next congress. Hopefully giving relief to the FB backlog will be enough to get Hispanics on board, because if it all hinges on amnesty, the system will likely stay broken. Just my $.02

[LOL]

@worldwideb

If you are so confident that the Bill will not pass because of your interpretation of a random blog comment, then why come here and cry against Indians and Hr3012? ROW have won! the Bill is dead, go enjoy :)

[Carlton]

Where, exactly, in the Grassley amendment language does it say that the adjudication of the LCA is held up pending the outcome of a full-blast investigation? What it does say is that DOL will just deny the LCA if there are clear indicators of fraud. No delay.

[WorldWideEB]

You all can stay in denial if it makes you feel better. Fine with me.

[lock]

"Republican senators oppose the legislation and could block it should Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., attempt to bring it up."

This does not mean that the two senators oppose the bill because of the Grassley amendments, it says they oppose the LEGISLATION not the amendments. No senator will or can oppose an amendment that "removes fraud to protect the american worker", which is what Grassley amendments are projected as.

The Irish bill compromise explanation seems more appropriate than yours.
I guess the E3 bill will be standalone as IV claims, this 3012 is pretty much going through

[Kh]

@worldwideeb

Where in the article you posted does it say that the two senators hold on the 3012 is NOT because of the E3 irish visa??

[emi]

@Shiny

Dream on..it is in the details, stupid.

[WorldWideEB]

@Sam

Here is a little more insight into the fate of the bill and about the motivation of the two senators holding the bill.

"Grassley said he was able to include language tightening the requirements for temporary work permits known as H-1B visas. But two other Republican senators oppose the legislation and could block it should Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., attempt to bring it up."

from here:

http://beverlyhillsimmigrationlaw.blogspot.com/2012/05/smith-griffin-seek-to-ease-path-for.html

Like I predicted, the explanation from IV about the two senators holding HR3012 because they are against Irish E3 is rubbish.

So we are back to square one. HR3012 is on hold and Reid won't waste time with cloture on this bill, so IV's only hope is to try to get the hold(s) removed which means more amendments. HR3012 supporters don't really have any other group left to sacrifice for their cause that I can think of. As I said before, there is no more room under the bus and no victims left to toss there.

[Sam]

I am sure some senators may not like removal of country quota. It will have some unintended consequences in long time. But how many is the question and that decides the fate of the bill. It needs the following for passing in senate

Both leaderships agree on bringing the bill
No other amendments
Needs 60 votes

When all of the above are satisfied then it will require few hours to be passed in senate

[Liars]

@worldwideEB

They need to revoke your LCA since it is fraud, i want to know why so many American citizen's who applied for your job listing during the PERM process were rejected?? on what grounds? if you were truly that important with no American Citizens available for your job then you should have been filed in EB2 or EB1, your company did fraud during your Perm process.

[WorldWideEB]

Grassley's amendment will allow for anonymous whistle blowers that can never be outed. My company no longer does H-1's, so no retro audits for me.

BTW I never said 50% were frauds, so obviously you can only dodge and deflect the question. I said >50% used labour sub to get an early priority date. So much for the much ballyhooed FIFO that we have heard so much about that warrants India getting 100% of EB3 green cards for years.

[Dhodho]

"If this bill ever passes, I will be one of those who personally will contact DOL for investigation and audits of Indians and their companies. In my work, I encounter plenty of them. I think it is about time DOL meets them and greets them accordingly."

What is stopping you from doing it now? If you suspect fraud in H1B, you should contact USCIS immediately with whatever proof you have. Why wait for certain bill to pass? Or are you motivated by something else rather than a purely holistic intention of stopping fraud.

[Emi]

If this bill ever passes, I will be one of those who personally will contact DOL for investigation and audits of Indians and their companies. In my work, I encounter plenty of them. I think it is about time DOL meets them and greets them accordingly.

[No FUD please]

@WorldwideEB

You're talking about fraud ( saying 50%) with such authority like you're the one who cleared those PERM, infact YOU could be a fraudster too, or maybe you are! they should revoke your PERM and kick you out, im saying this with the same level of authority that you're using.

Hope you get retro-audited too!

[WorldWideEB]

@FUD

I'd like to no how many have older priority dates due to labor sub, which of course was jumping the queue. My guess is at least 50%, probably much more. Plus now that IV is admitting that there is extensive fraud in the system (so much so that they now have to carry Grassley's water), what percentage of these old priority dates are from fraudulent applications? Shouldn't the auditing be retroactive just like HR3012 so all the fraudsters can be kicked out of the line so legitimate cases can proceed in a timely manner?

[No FUD please]

@WorldwideEB

You forgot to conveniently mention that the Indians would initially get majority of the Visa's because the haven an OLDER PRIORITY DATE.

You do understand what an older Priority Date means right?

[WorldWideEB]

@gg

I've read the bill, and if it passes as is, it would U for the rest of the year for all countries except I/C because of the retroactive implementation. Then for the next two years starting this October, ROW/M/P would get 10% plus some minor spillover when China EB3 catches ROW/M/P. As of Oct '14 India would get 100% of all EB3 visas for years to come.

The transition is purely token. Obviously no one from the non oversubscribed countries of the world was at the table when this was cooked up.

[gg]

@Dreamer - I suggest you read the bill. Looks like you have not and commenting on hearsay. The implementation is going to happen in phases and not overnight. Read the bill.

[Dreamer]

@gg

Look I am not arguing about the prospects of the bill in senate or house, yes I am new to America, and hence my concern too. If this bill passes my wait time will double to 8 years, there is nothing wrong in fixing the original unfairness, at the same time why do you change the existing wait times for the applicants who are close to get the card?

My simple question is where should I look for support? Is there any one organization representing Rowers?
If you don't know the answer please don't bother.

[gg]

HR3012 has exposed the fault lines within the so called pro high skilled immigration community. When push comes to shove every special interest within the group will leave no stone unturned to protect their little fiefdoms.

The fact of the matter is the Congress has no appetite either to protect quotas or to allocate additional visas even on a one time basis to provide relief for backlogged applicants. This is the writing on the wall.

[Gad]

@Greg

Never said it sailed through Senate, just the propensity of a good chance that it will.

True about the Lofgren and Lamar Smith nod, but they havent publicly said no either. I am sure Schumer and Grassley understand that part of the equation.

[Greg Siskind]

Gad - And when did this bill get to the Senate? If what you said was true, this bill would be part of the INA by now. Also, this is no longer the same bill that passed easily in the House. It passed easily in the House because it was supported by both Lamar Smith and Zoe Lofgren. When each comes out and says that they're in support of these changes and when the holds are lifted in the Senate, then I'd be more confident.

[Gad]

@JXV Haha so now it goes both ways, poor Jefferson must be one confused soul now :)

@WWEB A compromise has been reached between Schumer and Grassley, BOTH members of the immigration committee. The Irish bill for all you know will not be considered or be added.

While Greg has a good reason to now oppose the Bill ( Grassley Audit amendments) those are things that can be worked out. Rest of you ROWers, the idea behind this Bill ( country quota) is going away wether you like it or now, its discriminatory, the Senate and House GET IT. Your days of getting a "front of the line pass" are over, no free rides for anyone, its First come First basis, the way it should be.

[Gad]

@ Greg

It did sail through House with 389 votes didn't it?

I do agree that nothing can ever be taken for granted, nothing is black and white. But the propensity of a good chance is what matters.

[WorldWideEB]

@lol

Yeah, I'm sure Lamar Smith would put the Irish bill at the top of his to do list just before the election, giving out 10k new work visas each year (plus unlimited family who would get work authorization) with the current high level of unemployment. His NumbersUSA buddies would just love that.

Actually, the ultimate anti, Grassley, has a new friend in IV now that they have sold out to him.

[jxv]

Of course the House can block something passed by the Senate... it goes both ways.

[Greg Siskind]

Whether you like 3012 or not, it is foolish to assume any bill will sail through. Not in today's Congress.